Becoming Detective Travis

Matt: 00:00:00

Hey everybody.

Matt: 00:00:01

I am really, really honored today to get the chance to chat with one of the more popular and busy actors in the world of faith and family films.

Matt: 00:00:08

You guys know him as Detective Travis on the mega popular series Vindication.

Matt: 00:00:13

Uh, his film credits include but are absolutely not limited to.

Matt: 00:00:17

Jesus Revolution, unplanned, unbreakable boy and disciples in the moonlight.

Matt: 00:00:23

Uh, you may have seen him in popular series on TV such as 1923, breaking Bad, better Call Saul and Fear The Walking Dead.

Matt: 00:00:32

Uh, it's the one, it's the only Mr. Todd Terry, Mr. Todd, Terry, I am so excited to have you.

Matt: 00:00:39

So thanks for coming on the, uh, faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.

Matt: 00:00:41

We appreciate it, brother.

Todd: 00:00:42

Appreciate you having me.

Matt: 00:00:43

big celebrity in our world.

Matt: 00:00:44

So this was a big get, you know, Jeff reached out to me, and I'm like, well, I'm Facebook friends with him, so we'll see if it works.

Matt: 00:00:50

I know his boss.

Matt: 00:00:51

Okay.

Matt: 00:00:51

Although Jared would probably have a problem with me calling him your boss.

Matt: 00:00:56

So Todd, I want to let, let's rewind back.

Matt: 00:00:58

Talk about how did you first get into acting?

Matt: 00:01:01

when was your, your first kind of, when did the spark make you just decide?

Matt: 00:01:04

I, I've gotta go pretend to be somebody else.

Todd: 00:01:06

You know it, it actually started in high school.

Todd: 00:01:08

I took a drama class and I had to do a monologue.

Todd: 00:01:12

It was the first time that I felt like this, just this freedom to kind of exercise my emotions.

Todd: 00:01:17

I was a pretty introverted kid, but there was also, I think some theatrical background in some of my family from my grandmother.

Todd: 00:01:25

So I think that's probably where it came from.

Todd: 00:01:28

And my sister was a singer when I was growing up, and so I had that desire.

Todd: 00:01:32

But when I did that class, I felt like it was a safe place to exercise my emotions, which I guess introducing to me a to a love for it.

Matt: 00:01:41

Where'd you grow up though, if I can...

Todd: 00:01:43

Oh yeah, in, in Texas.

Todd: 00:01:45

I grew up in Dallas.

Matt: 00:01:46

Okay.

Todd: 00:01:46

Went to this high school here, all that kind of stuff.

Todd: 00:01:50

But later in high school, I, I was part of a teen improv group that did skits on, like drug abuse, teen pregnancy, all that stuff.

Todd: 00:01:58

So at that time, it gave me a purpose.

Todd: 00:02:00

I wasn't a believer.

Todd: 00:02:01

I mean, I, I would say I grew up as a believer, but I was kind of all over the place.

Todd: 00:02:05

I wasn't following Jesus at that time, but I still had a purpose and a want for it.

Todd: 00:02:10

And then later on when I was probably 20, about 28 is when I really came to know the Lord in a way that I hadn't in the past.

Todd: 00:02:18

So that's kind of how it started.

Todd: 00:02:20

I got into.

Todd: 00:02:20

Film and television or pursued it through an agent in my early twenties.

Todd: 00:02:25

I mean, I can go on.

Todd: 00:02:26

I've got a whole, a whole history.

Todd: 00:02:28

Uh, did a lot of theater, uh, summer stock theater up and down.

Todd: 00:02:32

Went to more of a classical theater training program, moved to Holland with a group of actors to start a theater company in my mid twenties.

Todd: 00:02:40

Ran outta money, but we were able to, you know, at least produce one show, which was a blast and a lot of fun.

Todd: 00:02:47

Too much fun, I'll say.

Todd: 00:02:49

But, uh, came back and met my wife in, you know, my late twenties and that's when I started wrestling with God and, uh, came to know him in a, bigger way.

Todd: 00:03:00

So, yeah, that's kind of the, the initial part of my story.

Matt: 00:03:04

The modern day Israel, right?

Matt: 00:03:06

We who wrestle with God the modern day Israel.

Matt: 00:03:09

So you bring up a very interesting point.

Matt: 00:03:11

I like diving into the kind of the psychology of acting and I've always, I. Thought that that stage actors can be very different to film actors.

Matt: 00:03:19

'cause a lot of stage actors are actors who are just natural extroverts.

Matt: 00:03:23

They just, they, they need a place to let it go.

Matt: 00:03:25

I've got all this to show.

Matt: 00:03:27

Whereas a lot of times you'll find film actors, uh, or people who specialize more in, in film on screen actors.

Matt: 00:03:33

It's more like they, they're introverted and they need a, a channel to express things they otherwise wouldn't feel comfortable expressing.

Todd: 00:03:41

Yeah, I mean, for me, I can only speak to my experience, but yeah, I mean, I met a lot of people in the theater that were definitely extroverted.

Todd: 00:03:48

You know, they had an outgoing personality all the time.

Todd: 00:03:50

There's so many different types of actors as far as where you come from.

Todd: 00:03:54

But yeah, sometimes more introverted actors may end up leaning toward film things that are a little more, uh.

Todd: 00:04:01

It can be subtle or you have to be subtle or the camera just exposes you in a huge way if you're not, and that's really what I've had to learn between those two worlds.

Todd: 00:04:11

And I haven't done theater in a long time, and I absolutely love it.

Todd: 00:04:13

And I think it's, any actor that pursues this should try it.

Todd: 00:04:18

It's just a, it's a different, different world.

Todd: 00:04:21

But same with the same tools that I use in film or television are the same ones I would use in theater.

Todd: 00:04:27

It's just.

Todd: 00:04:28

Your medium is a lot bigger in theater, and you are, there's a continuity in theater that you don't have in film as far as the process of doing it.

Todd: 00:04:37

You live or die on the stage when in film it's, you know, action to cut and then you can do it again.

Todd: 00:04:43

So, uh, different worlds, but a lot of the same process.

Matt: 00:04:48

I know a lot of editors who make actors look really good.

Matt: 00:04:51

If you can't get it all in one take, a lot of us can't.

Todd: 00:04:54

Yeah.

Todd: 00:04:54

And, and that's why I think I always appreciate a director that can also edit and Jared's like that.

Todd: 00:05:00

He, you know, he's a director, he is an editor.

Todd: 00:05:02

He, he's got his hand in about everything, but that really helps because their eye is looking for that thing that they say, okay, I can work around this.

Todd: 00:05:11

Versus an editor who gets it has to piece it together.

Matt: 00:05:14

Yeah, that's gotta give you a lot of comfort knowing that if I know I nailed that first line and take one, and the second part of it I didn't, but I got it.

Matt: 00:05:21

In Take three, you have as an.

Matt: 00:05:23

Actor, probably comfort knowing that Jared caught that.

Matt: 00:05:26

Jared is because he's directing and he is cutting it.

Matt: 00:05:29

He caught that and, and you could be more free to, there's a freedom in not worrying about messing up a line, right.

Todd: 00:05:36

Yeah.

Todd: 00:05:37

You know?

Todd: 00:05:37

Absolutely.

Todd: 00:05:38

And I, I tend to be a little methodical, like.

Todd: 00:05:42

I'm pretty good about matching, uh, physical movement, you know, in the projects I do.

Todd: 00:05:48

I've always just kind of thought that way, which is a good thing for an editor, but sometimes it'll inhibit you in trying to be more creative.

Todd: 00:05:56

So it's finding that fine line where you're, you're hitting your movements, but at the same time you're allowing yourself to be free with everything else.

Matt: 00:06:03

and giving them some additional choices that don't screw up the cut or force a cut.

Matt: 00:06:07

Right.

Todd: 00:06:08

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Matt: 00:06:09

A hundred percent.

Matt: 00:06:10

You mentioned subtlety I'm glad you brought that up.

Matt: 00:06:12

'cause I remember the first time Jared sent me the pilot, he wanted me to watch it.

Matt: 00:06:16

This was years ago.

Matt: 00:06:17

And I was like, who is this Todd Terry Guy?

Matt: 00:06:20

I was like, 'cause I think that really is, your strength is being so powerful in your subtlety.

Matt: 00:06:27

Like that's just a, that's a God-given gift that you have is being able to be so powerful while remaining so subtle on camera.

Todd: 00:06:34

I appreciate that.

Todd: 00:06:35

I mean, I definitely try sometimes I'm really scared of overacting or pushing things too far, and I. Sometimes a director, Jared'll, say, no.

Todd: 00:06:45

I, I, I'm not seeing it.

Todd: 00:06:47

I'm not seeing it.

Todd: 00:06:48

And so I'll, I'll find that space to push it, but I just tend to go smaller.

Todd: 00:06:54

I just have always liked films where people do less because it's so much about the audience watching a film.

Todd: 00:07:01

And having your own experience as an audience member, and it's not always about what the actor's doing, it's just living in that moment with them, and that's what I think makes it powerful.

Matt: 00:07:13

I mean, you're having to, to become the character and in most situations people are trying to hold back.

Matt: 00:07:18

Their emotions.

Matt: 00:07:19

They're trying to, to cover what they're really thinking in real life.

Matt: 00:07:22

And so most people aren't as big in real life as some over actors want to, to give the camera, right?

Todd: 00:07:29

And there's, there's definitely mediums that require.

Todd: 00:07:32

A bigger style farce or a lot of comedy and then some comedy is just played straight and real and that's what makes it so funny.

Todd: 00:07:41

it all depends on the medium, but a lot of the medium that I have done a bit of, which is dramatic.

Todd: 00:07:49

Yeah, I think this subtly works often.

Matt: 00:07:52

A hundred percent.

Matt: 00:07:54

Well, let's talk about your origin story, how you kind of came upon the original vindication script.

Matt: 00:08:00

How did Jared find you?

Matt: 00:08:01

I'm guessing you're both in Dallas, so maybe you're running the same circles, but it originally was just going to be a short film, right?

Todd: 00:08:07

Yeah, so initially I met Jared at a Christian, and I always mispronounced this.

Todd: 00:08:11

It's Christian Media Artist or Media Association.

Todd: 00:08:14

It's a group that, I think it was nationwide, and one of the chapters was here in Dallas.

Todd: 00:08:19

And I had done a film called Beyond the Farthest Star, this was 15 years ago, with a guy named Andy Librizzi, and I had spoke at that meeting and Jared came up afterwards and said, Hey, I'm doing this short film, would you be interested?

Todd: 00:08:33

I. His memory of it is different than mine.

Todd: 00:08:36

I was probably feel like I said absolutely.

Todd: 00:08:39

Because you know, as an actor we just wanna work a lot of times and we didn't know each other.

Todd: 00:08:44

So that was kind of the beginning.

Todd: 00:08:46

And then it was a short film with Ben Davies and I thought it turned out really well.

Todd: 00:08:50

And then a year later I saw him at a film festival, Jared, for Vindication that, short film.

Todd: 00:08:57

And he said, I'm thinking about turning it into a series.

Todd: 00:09:01

Who's gonna say no to that?

Todd: 00:09:02

And so that's kind of how it began.

Todd: 00:09:04

But that was 10 years ago.

Todd: 00:09:06

And here we are, we've completed four seasons.

Todd: 00:09:10

We have a standalone special that we just filmed and you know, it's audience is increasing because, you know, recently we were put on Angel Studios platform, which helped, you know, more eyes on the show.

Todd: 00:09:23

'cause when you're dealing with faith-based, film, you know, if you don't have a specific, I don't, I don't want to, maybe specific directors, people that have like i'll, the Irwin Brothers are a great example that they have kind of, they're moved into the secular arena, if you wanna call it that.

Todd: 00:09:40

And they, they produce a great product and I've been fortunate to work with them on, stuff before, but it's harder to get eyes on some of these.

Todd: 00:09:48

Christian films and TV things, although we have there, there's a lot of Christians in the US so you know, watching 'em is great.

Todd: 00:09:57

I think Christian film has had a bad rap being too on the nose, uh, at times.

Todd: 00:10:03

And so people probably just go, nah, it's probably not gonna be as good as something else I'm gonna see in the theater.

Todd: 00:10:11

And I think if people would just go, give us a shot and check it out, you might find that you like some of this stuff.

Matt: 00:10:16

I think maybe that reputation is old.

Matt: 00:10:19

Don't you think that reputation might be just a little old, like we earned that reputation 15, 20 years ago when kind of the Christian media was.

Matt: 00:10:25

Still in its infancy, but man, there's some good stuff out there.

Matt: 00:10:29

Vindication and the Erwin Brothers, as you say, being some of that.

Todd: 00:10:32

Yeah.

Todd: 00:10:33

Yeah.

Todd: 00:10:33

And there's a lot, and I, I don't wanna single out anybody specifically, but that name comes to mind because they're producing big, bigger budget things with good quality stories, you know, and it's always the story.

Todd: 00:10:45

I mean, you're, you're a writer, you know, the story is king.

Todd: 00:10:49

and you gotta have a good story, I think, to make something successful.

Matt: 00:10:53

Yeah, it's about the story, not about the sermon, and that's what we kind of think a lot of times wrong as we have, as Christians.

Matt: 00:10:58

We wanna preach a sermon and we'll wrap it in a thinly veiled story and hope it, works.

Matt: 00:11:03

But that's not even what really Jesus did.

Matt: 00:11:05

Jesus told stories and they were parallel to the logic that we needed to pull 'em over to the way.

Matt: 00:11:09

So tell good stories and, and good things will happen.

Todd: 00:11:12

Yeah.

Todd: 00:11:13

And it's like, it's giving also the audience credit for figuring things out.

Todd: 00:11:17

You know, when things are too on the nose, it's like, okay, I know the

Todd: 00:11:20

message

Todd: 00:11:20

I was supposed to receive, but when you talk about Jesus spoken parables, you have to read that over and over again.

Todd: 00:11:27

And you get new things every time because it's like, okay, what that really mean?

Todd: 00:11:30

And you really have to let it marinate.

Todd: 00:11:33

And, uh, I like that.

Todd: 00:11:34

I don't want to be told, I want to, you know, I want to be.

Todd: 00:11:38

Shown and allow my...

Matt: 00:11:39

Provoked.

Todd: 00:11:40

Provoke.

Todd: 00:11:41

That's a great word.

Todd: 00:11:41

Yeah.

Matt: 00:11:42

Yeah, that's how the, Jewish people learned back then is that they were provoked to think.

Matt: 00:11:47

Hmm.

Matt: 00:11:48

that's, obviously as an actor, the stories you are, drawn to.

Matt: 00:11:51

So maybe that's, you know, a, a lesson for all the writers out there and the directors who are listening and how can I get an actor of Todd, Terry's quality?

Matt: 00:11:59

Well give them a story that provokes people to think.

Todd: 00:12:02

You're being very nice.

Todd: 00:12:03

I mean, I, I look at myself as an actor that just, who never gave up, and I've been doing this for almost 40 years, and it's just like my whole, if you wanna call it a mantra or whatever, it's just don't give up.

Todd: 00:12:14

Keep doing it.

Todd: 00:12:15

there's lean times, there's great times, but I'm grateful to have had this opportunity because I wouldn't have seen myself in the faith-based market, if you, for lack of a better word, in the Christian market specifically, because I just wanted to do good quality stuff and I wanted to work.

Todd: 00:12:33

Here it is, and I'm very grateful.

Matt: 00:12:36

It's tough for a Christian who is also an actor as well.

Matt: 00:12:38

'cause obviously you don't wanna limit yourself only to the quote unquote faith-based market.

Matt: 00:12:44

But at the same time, going into the secular world, I've talked to lots of actors who said that's always a fight not to compromise going into that world

Matt: 00:12:53

. Todd: Yeah, and I've had, I've been fortunate to do a lot of, you know, secular television as well.

Matt: 00:12:58

And some, you know, if you wanna call it secular film, yeah, and it's always a case by case scenario because a lot of times you may not see the full script, especially in television, and you're going off, okay, here's my dialogue, and I seem okay with that.

Matt: 00:13:13

A lot of it is just, God, shut that door if it's not where I need to be.

Matt: 00:13:18

Sometimes that's the prayer and sometimes you just go in it.

Matt: 00:13:21

And I've made mistakes.

Matt: 00:13:22

I've done stuff that I'm like, I wish I hadn't have done.

Matt: 00:13:25

But you kinda live and... you live and learn.

Matt: 00:13:27

Now how do you feel about this?

Matt: 00:13:28

'cause this, I don't know how I feel about it.

Matt: 00:13:31

There are a lot of actors, and I respect it, who will say, there are lines that I don't, we all have lines we won't cross, but there, there are actors who will say, I won't curse in a project.

Matt: 00:13:40

I get it.

Matt: 00:13:41

I'm fine with that.

Matt: 00:13:42

Personally, I cursed in a Christian movie once because I, for me it's like.

Matt: 00:13:47

If I'm playing a bad guy, if I'm playing an evil guy and he says, all shucks, just because I'm in a movie and don't wanna say a bad word now I'm lacking reality.

Matt: 00:13:55

So if I'm playing a person who would curse, I will curse.

Matt: 00:13:59

But, but others have different standards and, for me, it's like you do what's best for you.

Matt: 00:14:03

I don't think we should necessarily have one standard that Christian actors necessarily have to abide by other than our, our own, you know, biblical interpretation.

Todd: 00:14:11

Yeah, I mean, mean trust me, I've thought about this so much and I'm hesitant to even talk about it because, you know, it's like, ah, you're gonna talk something, you're gonna put something out there and somebody's gonna like, well, you said this and you said you would never do this.

Matt: 00:14:23

Cancel culture.

Matt: 00:14:24

Christian, cancel culture.

Todd: 00:14:25

And, but I do, I weigh that in auditions where I have that kind of stuff.

Todd: 00:14:30

And again, that's, that's sometimes I'll probably shut that door if, if it's stuff I'm really, really on the edge about.

Todd: 00:14:37

And then sometimes I'll be in auditions where I've got some very heavy language and I'll change it to something I'm more comfortable with, but still gets the point across.

Todd: 00:14:48

And I've had the opportunity to.

Todd: 00:14:49

Be on a show.

Todd: 00:14:50

And I said to the director, I said, there's certain words I really don't wanna say.

Todd: 00:14:53

And at the time it was 'cause I had younger kids and he said, that's fine, know, and it, it was communicated.

Todd: 00:15:00

But I agree with you in that all shucks, so to speak, is not gonna... is not gonna sell the A killer is not gonna say that

Matt: 00:15:09

right.

Todd: 00:15:09

Yeah.

Todd: 00:15:10

Yeah.

Todd: 00:15:10

But yeah.

Todd: 00:15:11

But I agree that's, that, that's a tough one.

Todd: 00:15:13

It's a case by case basis.

Todd: 00:15:14

And I don't wanna say I'll never do.

Todd: 00:15:16

Something's, you know, I just don't want to name certain words.

Todd: 00:15:19

'cause I think a lot of the, the whole thing about cursing has a lot more to do with how we speak about other people in general and our heart posture towards people and gossip.

Todd: 00:15:31

And along those lines that we go, we immediately go to.

Todd: 00:15:35

Certain four letter words and yet there's a much bigger picture on how we talk daily about each other and you know, bless your enemy.

Todd: 00:15:45

And granted, we're in a medium that we're showing something to people because we're trying to tell a story and get a message across.

Todd: 00:15:52

And sometimes it's good and evil and you gotta have the evil guy, you know, and the good guy to kinda show where we're going in the big picture.

Todd: 00:15:59

So that's my talk around that.

Matt: 00:16:02

Hey.

Matt: 00:16:02

It's like we just said, well, no, that, but it's better to explore these topics than it is to have that hard and fast rule.

Matt: 00:16:08

So just, just like, you know, we, we just talked about with story, this is, it's all an exploration.

Matt: 00:16:12

To give you the other side of that, I kid you not, I was once, uh, I was directing a, very Christian movie and I had an actor audition and the dude knew what the movie was and he dropped, must have been 50 F-bombs, which weren't, obviously not in my sides.

Matt: 00:16:28

Obviously he didn't get the part, but it was interesting that somebody in the sides would start dropping dozens of f-bombs in an audition for a Christian movie.

Todd: 00:16:35

Yeah,

Matt: 00:16:36

I wanna know about your experience on vindication and, and more specifically, let's get into the, to the meat of acting here.

Matt: 00:16:41

What is your relationship like with Travis, with Detective Travis?

Todd: 00:16:45

You know what?

Todd: 00:16:46

This is interesting because when you start off a character, especially, I can use vindication as an example.

Todd: 00:16:52

You don't know this guy's beginning and end story because it's always progressing.

Todd: 00:16:58

You discover who he is.

Todd: 00:17:00

Any actor discovers this character as you go along because you're, there's so much limited information because the writer are creating this guy.

Todd: 00:17:09

And I really trust in the writer.

Todd: 00:17:11

I'm a big advocate of, writers and, look, I'm sometimes I'm horrible staying on the line, you know, I'll creatively mess with it.

Todd: 00:17:19

And some writers are, no, I want exactly the words and some aren't.

Todd: 00:17:24

But I usually try to do it where I feel like this character's either coming from, and it may be small, but that's often another topic, but you learn the character just like you learn your own self in real life as go along.

Todd: 00:17:38

I mean, we discover things about our own selves.

Todd: 00:17:40

As you know, I made in a year from now go, man, I was not a nice person.

Todd: 00:17:46

All of a sudden, because I have some epiphany or some sort of Holy Spirit moment where I discover something.

Todd: 00:17:53

It's the same thing with acting.

Todd: 00:17:54

It's discovering it along the ways.

Todd: 00:17:56

But I think I came into the character with, okay, this guy is a cop.

Todd: 00:18:01

I. I know nothing about being a cop, so I would do stuff like, I did a ride along with a friend of mine that I know not well, but he was, he's a cop and I've known some others and a lot of it's an imagination.

Todd: 00:18:12

What would I do in this situation?

Todd: 00:18:14

kind of make things up as you go along.

Todd: 00:18:16

But the funny thing is I can look back and season one and go.

Todd: 00:18:20

I had no idea what I was doing there.

Todd: 00:18:22

You know, when you look at yourself, I don't love watching myself.

Todd: 00:18:25

I can do it, but I kind of do it to go, okay, do I believe it or do I not?

Todd: 00:18:28

And I, I found a lot of moments, especially really early on, not even the, the short film, but like the second episode where I went, I don't really have a good, strong opinion as a character, and that bugged me.

Todd: 00:18:41

But you'll live and learn and you figure it out as you go along.

Todd: 00:18:44

That's my best answer for how character develop.

Matt: 00:18:48

I hate to get too cliche here, but that term, what's my motivation really is everything.

Matt: 00:18:54

That's what I always tell an actor, is it really all it matters is what you want.

Matt: 00:18:59

What does your character want right now.

Matt: 00:19:01

And, and so when you approach Travis and you're going into season four and you've done so many stories, what is it the baseline that you kind of ride along as to what Travis wants?

Todd: 00:19:12

It's funny, I've always been an action oriented actor trying to find something that I, that I'm going for.

Todd: 00:19:18

So in a sense, it's what you want and I'm, I feel like I'm kind of trying to expand my mind on this, and this is not something.

Todd: 00:19:24

I figured out myself.

Todd: 00:19:25

It was just another teacher that I'm kind of watching a little bit of what he does, and some of it's about finding the problem and where you are within that problem and trying to figure your way out of it.

Todd: 00:19:35

It's kind of a different way of looking at it, and I think that allows the actor to be alive because you don't know where the scene's going because when you read a scene as an actor, you know where it's gonna end.

Todd: 00:19:49

Trying not to stay in that.

Todd: 00:19:50

Trying to stay in.

Todd: 00:19:51

What's this obstacle against you and trying to push your way out of it.

Todd: 00:19:56

That's the best way.

Todd: 00:19:57

I can look at it, and Jared does a good job of keeping that struggle alive in the words.

Todd: 00:20:04

So that really helps.

Todd: 00:20:05

That's where I, you always go back and rely on the words, and he's also really good at going, you know, I need to see more of this here, or something that's going to make this scene go where it needs to go.

Todd: 00:20:17

Because it's really easy as the actor just to kind of be so enmeshed in the scene that you don't see the bigger picture of what he's trying to tell the audience.

Todd: 00:20:25

And so that's where a good director comes in.

Matt: 00:20:27

Yeah.

Matt: 00:20:28

Yet another good lesson for an audience... 'cause both of us know and have worked with Jared and I think the lesson you can learn from Jared is a be decisive if you wanna direct but also.

Matt: 00:20:38

Be a good guy to work with.

Matt: 00:20:39

I think that's one of Jared's biggest superpowers is everybody loves working with that guy.

Matt: 00:20:45

I would not say that if he were here, I would say something much meaner about him behind his back.

Matt: 00:20:49

I'll, I'll be truthful, but, uh, he's such an, just a gentle soul, yet decisive, which I think is tough to achieve that balance as a director.

Todd: 00:20:58

And you don't, see that in a lot, so, 'cause my experience, a lot of times you're gonna have a separate writer and you're gonna have a separate director.

Todd: 00:21:05

And when you have that.

Todd: 00:21:07

A lot of times the directors are more, will sit back and go, okay, this is what we're looking for, but you just do your thing and you get used to that.

Todd: 00:21:15

But Jared, since he's written the majority of them, I know you've written, you've written one or two, I can't remember.

Matt: 00:21:22

A couple.

Matt: 00:21:22

I don't know.

Matt: 00:21:23

I don't know.

Matt: 00:21:23

I worked on a bunch of 'em.

Matt: 00:21:25

I think I got credit for one.

Matt: 00:21:26

Yeah, I have written it.

Todd: 00:21:27

Well, so those are probably

Matt: 00:21:28

I made you flirt with your wife.

Matt: 00:21:30

That's my most proud thing on the, the show is I made you flirt with your

Todd: 00:21:32

Oh my gosh.

Todd: 00:21:34

that episode.

Todd: 00:21:35

But yeah, maybe those were the episodes, but, 'cause I can't remember exactly ones they were, that maybe he gave more leniency.

Todd: 00:21:42

But when he writes the episodes, he has a very specific thing he wants.

Todd: 00:21:47

And, and so, you know, as an actor, I've gotta really be able to listen to that because he knows what he wants and that's what you're up against with any, you know, any director.

Todd: 00:21:58

Sometimes there's more freedom.

Todd: 00:22:00

I'm not saying he doesn't give freedom, he does, but he has a very specific thing he wants to see because he knows what he wants the audience to see.

Matt: 00:22:07

It's about achieving that balance a hundred percent.

Matt: 00:22:09

Look, I could talk to you all day.

Matt: 00:22:11

Each episode could be three hours, but they won't let me do that.

Matt: 00:22:14

So here's what we're gonna do.

Matt: 00:22:15

I wanna know more about now, where you're going, where Vindication is going, um, but we're gonna find that out next time.

Matt: 00:22:22

So, uh, make sure everybody tune in to the next episode.

Matt: 00:22:25

Uh, Todd, thank you so much for joining us here on the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast.

Todd: 00:22:29

Thank you.