Creating Faith-Based Animation with Brannon Hollingsworth

Geoff: 00:00:00

Hey there.

Geoff: 00:00:00

Welcome to the faith and family filmmakers podcast with Jeffrey and Jacqueline wit.

Geoff: 00:00:04

This is another first for our podcast today, as we talk about animation.

Geoff: 00:00:09

Our guest Brandon Hollingsworth.

Jaclyn: 00:00:11

Brandon Hollingsworth was born to create an author, speaker, poet, producer, publisher game designer, content creator, script writer, art director, and unapologetic Christ followEr.

Jaclyn: 00:00:23

Brandon is a passionate creator teacher and deacon of young adults who promotes family oriented ministries.

Jaclyn: 00:00:29

. Brandon is a multi award-winning director, producer and screenwriter of Christian animation, the author or co-author of over a desert novels, novellas.

Jaclyn: 00:00:38

And short stories, as well as the co-creator of a game that Forbes called a clever idea.

Jaclyn: 00:00:43

Well, executed and excellent.

Jaclyn: 00:00:45

He serves joyously as the chief operations officer and chief creative officer for brainy pixel productions.

Jaclyn: 00:00:52

Uh, Christian animation slash production studio in north Alabama.

Jaclyn: 00:00:56

Brandon Hollingsworth.

Jaclyn: 00:00:57

Welcome to faith and family filmmakers podcast.

Geoff: 00:01:01

Welcome.

Brannon: 00:01:02

we've clearly got big work to do.

Jaclyn: 00:01:08

Well, we're excited to have you here with us today because you're on the animation side of things.

Jaclyn: 00:01:12

Which clearly is part of filmmaking, but It's from a different angle.

Jaclyn: 00:01:16

and so we want to hear, first of all, how did you even get into animation

Brannon: 00:01:25

very circuitous.

Brannon: 00:01:25

So, about 10 years ago, actually really about 12 years ago, I was introduced to my future business partner, Michael Tonis.

Brannon: 00:01:34

We were actually at another little animation studio.

Brannon: 00:01:37

Uh, working on a project that a gentleman in my hometown, which is in North Alabama, a very, very small town.

Brannon: 00:01:43

so having an animation studio in my, small town was kind of crazy.

Brannon: 00:01:46

It was kind of like, what, seriously?

Brannon: 00:01:48

Anyway, we met there.

Brannon: 00:01:49

He was the animation lead, the technical animation lead running a team of about 12 animators.

Brannon: 00:01:54

And I was brought in as a freelance writer because that's kind of my bailiwick.

Brannon: 00:01:58

And so we met there on that show and worked together on that show and we're able and blessed to get it out the door.

Brannon: 00:02:04

Um, it didn't really have a marketing plan in place.

Brannon: 00:02:07

Uh, it was just kind of a, a kind of a project that a guy had dreamed up and found some money to go build.

Brannon: 00:02:13

So we built a beautiful show, but it didn't really go anywhere sadly.

Brannon: 00:02:16

and then that, um, that was really primarily driven by real estate investment money.

Brannon: 00:02:21

And so that was when the real estate bubble in the United States popped and, all the funding went away.

Brannon: 00:02:27

And so the studio within just a matter of weeks folded and they had to close up the shop.

Brannon: 00:02:32

So, Michael went back to his day job.

Brannon: 00:02:34

I was still working my day job.

Brannon: 00:02:35

I was a freelance writer, but we stayed in touch and over the next couple of years, um, we just were talking occasionally and one day Michael called me up and he said, Hey, Brandon, have you ever heard of YouTube and I said, no, what's that?

Brannon: 00:02:47

This was in the early days of YouTube.

Brannon: 00:02:49

There really was a time when YouTube didn't exist.

Brannon: 00:02:52

And, um, He had created a channel called How to Draw and Paint on YouTube.

Brannon: 00:02:56

It taught kids how to draw and how to paint.

Brannon: 00:02:58

Very simple, but it had really kind of caught the algorithm and had blown up.

Brannon: 00:03:03

And at that point, I think there was nearly 450, 000 subscribers and it was growing out of control.

Brannon: 00:03:09

And so we really started Brainy Pixel around that YouTube channel to grow and prosper that channel and hopefully expand it.

Brannon: 00:03:16

But then we started working on the channel together And we started, would it be like if we did other things?

Brannon: 00:03:21

And I have a passion for telling stories.

Brannon: 00:03:23

I have a passion for art directing.

Brannon: 00:03:25

He has a passion for 3d animation and for understanding the technical pipelines that go along with animation.

Brannon: 00:03:32

And so we said, well, let's, let's try to make some content and see if we can get it sold somewhere, see if someone's interested in it.

Brannon: 00:03:38

So we did that for a few years and really just doing secular work.

Brannon: 00:03:42

we're near Huntsville, Alabama.

Brannon: 00:03:43

So there was a lot of space and rocket work.

Brannon: 00:03:46

There was a lot of missile launching work, a lot of, you know, stuff like that.

Brannon: 00:03:49

It's a defense town.

Brannon: 00:03:50

Um, so it wasn't really necessarily bad work, but it wasn't anything that was glorifying God in any way.

Brannon: 00:03:56

And so about five years ago, we just really had a crisis of faith and God very clearly said, what you're doing is good, but it doesn't glorify me.

Brannon: 00:04:03

So pick.

Brannon: 00:04:04

And so we were kind of rocked back on our heels and we said, okay, dad, thank you for that chastisement.

Brannon: 00:04:10

Um, And how are we going to deal with that, right?

Brannon: 00:04:12

Are we going to be obedient?

Brannon: 00:04:14

Are we going to keep doing what we're doing?

Brannon: 00:04:15

And so we, after a season of prayer, just said, we're just going to be obedient.

Brannon: 00:04:19

We're going to be overt.

Brannon: 00:04:20

We're going to step out on faith.

Brannon: 00:04:21

And, you know, my business partner said, Brandon, we'll probably never get work again, but we're going to do this.

Brannon: 00:04:25

And I'm like, I agree.

Brannon: 00:04:26

Let's go do it.

Brannon: 00:04:27

So we became a Christian animation studio.

Brannon: 00:04:29

We put it on our website.

Brannon: 00:04:31

It's out there for anybody to see.

Brannon: 00:04:34

And, um, it's been a wild ride.

Brannon: 00:04:36

It's been a crazy, four and a half, almost five years now where, you know, we started out with nobody and knowing no one in the industry.

Brannon: 00:04:45

And, now we're working with answers and Genesis and, you know, creator films and yippy TV and.

Brannon: 00:04:51

You know, we've got daily wires looking at our stuff.

Brannon: 00:04:54

It's just, it's crazy to see what happens when you're obedient and you follow, uh, follow our Lord and Savior in obedience, and so we're just hanging on now because, uh, it's, it's pretty wild, but for me personally, I'm a storyteller, and so any form that I can tell stories in, um, Whether it's animation or comics or novels or, or what have you, uh, I'm on board for that.

Brannon: 00:05:14

I'm all about telling stories and I love doing things that are visually engaging.

Brannon: 00:05:18

And of course that that's a really good Venn diagram for animation.

Brannon: 00:05:22

All those things happen there.

Brannon: 00:05:23

So that's the short version.

Geoff: 00:05:25

I noticed something there that, applies to so many people.

Geoff: 00:05:29

said starting out, you kind of had no one, but kind of comes to a point where it starts multiplying.

Geoff: 00:05:35

don't you find that's the case?

Geoff: 00:05:36

Like, didn't go anywhere quickly right away.

Geoff: 00:05:38

Am I correct?

Brannon: 00:05:39

That, that's correct?

Geoff: 00:05:40

But once it started multiplying,

Brannon: 00:05:42

absolutely.

Brannon: 00:05:43

It, it was really wild.

Brannon: 00:05:44

We knew no one in the Christian industry.

Brannon: 00:05:45

We didn't really know a lot about the Christian industry.

Brannon: 00:05:47

We were like a lot of people that we engage with now.

Brannon: 00:05:50

Who were like, uh, Christian animation, isn't that veggie tales?

Brannon: 00:05:53

I mean, that was really like all that we thought there was.

Brannon: 00:05:56

And, um, we began.

Brannon: 00:05:57

first of all, we felt very strongly led to create something, to create something that would help people understand who Brainy was and what we were all about.

Brannon: 00:06:06

And so we created a little show called Cubekins.

Brannon: 00:06:09

We created a 22 minute pilot of that show out of our hip pocket.

Brannon: 00:06:13

it costs more than most people's houses, because animation is really expensive.

Brannon: 00:06:18

And, but we paid for that, and, God blessed us to have the funding to, to do that, and we created this show.

Brannon: 00:06:24

We started doing investigation, and we found out there were Christian film festivals, and there were all these Christian conferences, and so we started entering.

Brannon: 00:06:31

And it started winning awards and, and praise God, it's won, you know, about 40 awards now to date.

Brannon: 00:06:38

And I've been nominated for, you know, I think 65 or 70 others.

Brannon: 00:06:42

So we started getting some eyeballs on us and started getting some attention.

Brannon: 00:06:46

And we just started going to these film festivals and conferences and meeting people and saying, Hey, how can we serve you?

Brannon: 00:06:52

We would love to help you.

Brannon: 00:06:53

Um, we can do animation, we can do comics, we can do books and layout and logos and whatever.

Brannon: 00:06:59

And so, yeah, it started out with, you know, some logos and some character designs and you know, me doing some writing, some spec writing.

Brannon: 00:07:06

And now we just finished, you know, season one of a show for Answers in Genesis that's on Answers TV.

Brannon: 00:07:12

It's called, Lily's Lab and they're loving it and it's doing really good.

Brannon: 00:07:15

And hopefully we'll get to make more.

Brannon: 00:07:17

Lord willing.

Jaclyn: 00:07:18

What kind of technology do you use?

Jaclyn: 00:07:20

I know that technology has been changing like crazy over the last 20 or 40 years.

Jaclyn: 00:07:24

However you want to look at it, especially for animation.

Jaclyn: 00:07:27

So, what do you use

Brannon: 00:07:30

we are very much embracers of technology.

Brannon: 00:07:33

We see them as tools and we want to leverage those tools for the glory of the kingdom and to spread the gospel and make disciples as much as we can.

Brannon: 00:07:40

So very early on, we became adopters of a technology that a lot of people don't know lot about.

Brannon: 00:07:46

It's called the Unreal Game Engine.

Brannon: 00:07:48

It's actually used to create video games, but it does real time rendering because it produces real time video games.

Brannon: 00:07:55

And so you're able to produce animation really, really fast.

Brannon: 00:07:59

Uh, to give you an example, our 22 minute pilot for Cubicons, normally that show would take a minimum of 24 months to create.

Brannon: 00:08:09

we created that show in eight months, from an initial idea all the way to a finished product on Amazon Prime.

Brannon: 00:08:16

So, the Unreal Game Engine is one of our primary tools.

Brannon: 00:08:19

We use it on almost every project.

Brannon: 00:08:21

We just use it, to do some work on The Shift, Angel Studios, live action.

Brannon: 00:08:26

sci fi show we were blessed to be a part of that and we did some visual effects for them and created some digital worlds using the Unreal Game Engine and that was a lot of fun.

Brannon: 00:08:34

Um, so Unreal Game Engine is one of our main tools.

Brannon: 00:08:37

Uh, Blender, which is a 3D, software that's free.

Brannon: 00:08:40

Uh, it's open source and free and you can use that.

Brannon: 00:08:43

We use that a lot.

Brannon: 00:08:44

but we Are I would say we're kind of pipeline agnostic because many times, the work that we do is service based work.

Brannon: 00:08:51

And so we're doing work for a particular client, and many times we have to change our pipeline to suit their needs.

Brannon: 00:08:58

So a lot of 2D stuff that we do is in like Adobe character animate or character animator.

Brannon: 00:09:04

We've used tons of different softwares.

Brannon: 00:09:06

We also do a lot of motion capture.

Brannon: 00:09:08

So the mocap suits that people put on, you know, the Andy Serkis with Gollum has made famous.

Brannon: 00:09:13

Well, we put those suits on and we record our data into the computer just like he did.

Brannon: 00:09:18

Face capture, where we're using, you know, forward facing cameras to capture the movements of our face.

Brannon: 00:09:24

we use a lot of face capture as well.

Brannon: 00:09:27

And then recently we've been kind of exploring, AI.

Brannon: 00:09:30

Um, but we do it in a way that we think is more ethical, where we're, we're resisting the, very easy path of letting AI just crawl the web and grab Data and images from anywhere, we're restricting that AI.

Brannon: 00:09:44

So we're only using data sources that are either in the public domain, or that we own wholly, or that we have paid for and have access to.

Brannon: 00:09:52

So we're doing AI a little bit differently than most folks and happy to talk about that as well.

Brannon: 00:09:57

But pretty much any tool that's out there.

Brannon: 00:09:58

If we can learn it to get the job done and provide a really beautiful in cost effective solution for our clients or our IP, then that's the tool we go learn and we utilize.

Jaclyn: 00:10:09

Awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:10:10

actually first heard of you, at a festival, which is, you know, where you mentioned where you got started and how you started getting your name out there.

Jaclyn: 00:10:17

and I remember when I first saw cube skins, I thought, wow, like that's really cute.

Jaclyn: 00:10:23

And it looked good quality.

Jaclyn: 00:10:24

And it was adorable.

Jaclyn: 00:10:25

Like my kids are older, so I wasn't thinking for my own kids, but I could clearly see the quality.

Jaclyn: 00:10:30

And I did get to see the pilot.

Jaclyn: 00:10:32

I think also at the festival, I think there was a viewing.

Jaclyn: 00:10:35

so I'm actually curious how many episodes do you have of cube skins at this point?

Brannon: 00:10:41

sadly for Kubekins, we just have that one episode.

Brannon: 00:10:43

So, we put it out there in hopes that someone would say, Hey, I want to fund a series of this.

Brannon: 00:10:48

That hasn't happened yet.

Brannon: 00:10:49

Um, but we've made about an hour's worth of content because we also Um, one of the young ladies who played a character, she played Kara, in Kubekin, she's also an amazing vocalist and singer, she actually is a gold ticket, uh, holder for America's Idol, believe it or not, and so she can just wail, and so we're like, we've gotta utilize this talent, and so we said, would you love to sing some songs?

Brannon: 00:11:12

And so we actually produced an album, a 12 song album, and it's called a Kubekin's Worship Celebration Album, where it's Kara singing all these classic Christian songs like Jesus Loves Me and, you know, um, Father Abraham, but we're doing it in a real upbeat, kind of new style.

Brannon: 00:11:28

And so we produced that album and started selling it.

Brannon: 00:11:31

And then we said, we need music videos.

Brannon: 00:11:33

So we created in the Cubicons universe, we created music videos for all those songs.

Brannon: 00:11:39

And they're out on YouTube.

Brannon: 00:11:40

You can watch them.

Brannon: 00:11:41

and now we've got some new content that we're creating with Mark Lowry.

Brannon: 00:11:45

who's the guy that wrote Mary, did you know, who wants to be grandpa Mark Cubicon.

Brannon: 00:11:49

And so we're producing some additional content.

Brannon: 00:11:51

so all told, we've got about an hour worth of content, but just one full episode, because again, they're not cheap to produce, so.

Brannon: 00:11:58

Yeah,

Brannon: 00:11:58

and

Jaclyn: 00:11:58

Yeah, exactly.

Jaclyn: 00:12:00

And actually I tell people all the time when they ask me, how's your project going?

Jaclyn: 00:12:04

I'm like nothing moves quickly in the film industry.

Jaclyn: 00:12:07

okay.

Jaclyn: 00:12:08

That's on the shelf for the moment until it's funded.

Jaclyn: 00:12:11

Do you have anything that you're currently working on where you're like, okay, this is our thing right now.

Brannon: 00:12:15

Yeah, we've got several projects in work.

Brannon: 00:12:17

As I said, we just finished the 12 episodes of Lily's Lab for Answers in Genesis.

Brannon: 00:12:22

that's streaming now on Answers TV.

Brannon: 00:12:24

I think another episode just dropped yesterday, episode 6.

Brannon: 00:12:27

So they're releasing one a week, and we're in talks about doing more in the new year.

Brannon: 00:12:31

We just finished some service work, believe it or not, for the Maryland Department of Transportation.

Brannon: 00:12:36

We made a little 3D animated cartoon for them.

Brannon: 00:12:39

So we just finished that up and delivered that.

Brannon: 00:12:41

right before that, late last month, we finished a 12 minute 3d pilot for a show called Super Scout.

Brannon: 00:12:50

Um, that's in post production now.

Brannon: 00:12:51

It's getting final music and sound effects as we speak.

Brannon: 00:12:54

And we're pitching that around at the moment to see who wants to make a series out of that.

Brannon: 00:12:58

And we did everything on that show.

Brannon: 00:13:00

That was one of those 24 to 28 month shows where, we built everything.

Brannon: 00:13:05

I wrote the script, we built the world, and we're working with creator films to produce that.

Brannon: 00:13:10

And it's kind of like super dogs helping kids.

Brannon: 00:13:12

That's a good way to put it.

Brannon: 00:13:13

Or what we like to say, it's Paw Patrol.

Brannon: 00:13:15

meets Mission Impossible, which is a, you know, pretty cool idea.

Brannon: 00:13:19

So we just finished that show up and we'd love to make a series out of that.

Brannon: 00:13:23

and we are also doing, kind of self funding a short mini pilot on a show that's kind of like a Christian Kung Fu Panda.

Brannon: 00:13:31

It's called Righteous Warriors.

Brannon: 00:13:33

Um, it's about, uh, Master Wan, who's an ancient white tiger kung fu master.

Brannon: 00:13:39

And he uses the ancient scrolls of wisdom to teach kids how to resist the evil forces of the Singes.

Brannon: 00:13:46

Not ninjas, but Singes.

Brannon: 00:13:48

So, we raised, our community and through our contacts, we raised about 15, 000, which got us about halfway on that.

Brannon: 00:13:55

And so we're, we're adding a little bit more to that and finishing that show up and hopefully it'll be soon.

Brannon: 00:14:00

It'll be done here within a month or so, and we'll be able to start showing that.

Brannon: 00:14:04

and, releasing a new Molly's Memory Verses all the time.

Brannon: 00:14:08

Molly's Memory Verses is a little show that we created here at Brainy and we pitched a Yippee TV and they love the concept.

Brannon: 00:14:15

And so, um, we did 20 episodes of Molly's Memory Verse for them.

Brannon: 00:14:19

And then we're also producing additional episodes right now on our own.

Brannon: 00:14:23

and we're dropping those each week, over on YouTube.

Brannon: 00:14:26

Molly's Memory Verses is about a little girl who loves to live stream, and so she's got a live stream where she teaches other kids how to memorize scripture, and you learn a little bit about the Bible along the way.

Jaclyn: 00:14:37

is so cute.

Geoff: 00:14:38

So,

Geoff: 00:14:41

Jaclyn - BadAudio - Brandon Hollingsworth: cute.

Brannon: 00:14:48

but thankfully, my passion is actually the older kids, so like high school and college and young adults, that's really my passion.

Brannon: 00:14:56

My business partner is more the younger kids, which is good, you need that balance.

Brannon: 00:15:00

But we're hearing a lot in the Christian market right now where people are saying, we've got enough for little kids.

Brannon: 00:15:04

We need stuff for middle school and up.

Brannon: 00:15:07

and so we're actually pitching a whole host of shows right now that we've developed and been blessed to be able to develop into a pitch or maybe a small pilot.

Brannon: 00:15:16

And we're pitching those across the spectrum right now to lots of different streaming services and hoping to land one of those soon.

Brannon: 00:15:22

And in the new year, we've already secured some production funding.

Brannon: 00:15:26

For one of our IPs that's called Fourth World Four, which is a high school aged, uh, Christian sci fi action adventure.

Brannon: 00:15:34

So we're going to do a little short episode of that starting in 2024, which I'm very excited about.

Brannon: 00:15:39

So

Geoff: 00:15:39

I think that may be true across the film industry in general.

Geoff: 00:15:42

a gap, uh, kid stuff, adult stuff, but teens, tweens, older kids, there's, uh, really not been much for them.

Brannon: 00:15:51

Well, and that's because number one, it's a really hard age range to write for, you know, uh, even, even the, the secular markets have this problem, right?

Brannon: 00:15:59

Because there's so much that's changing and there's such a wide range of interests, during those ages.

Brannon: 00:16:05

But then also with the Christian market, you have this added challenge of where do you land, you know, theologically and doctrinally in that age range, right?

Brannon: 00:16:14

Do you go allegory like of Narnia, you know, or do you just do something completely biblical?

Brannon: 00:16:21

Right.

Brannon: 00:16:21

Uh, sadly, if you do something completely biblical for those age ranges, you're probably gonna lose kids.

Brannon: 00:16:26

They're not gonna watch it.

Brannon: 00:16:26

So you've gotta figure out an interesting vehicle that pulls you into the world and the story and the characters, and then you're able to weave in the biblical messaging or the theological truths that you want.

Brannon: 00:16:40

And that's a really, really hard thing to do well.

Brannon: 00:16:43

And so a lot companies just simply don't.

Brannon: 00:16:46

Even try because there's not a lot of chance of success.

Jaclyn: 00:16:49

Yeah, well, if they can make money with something that feels like it's more of a short thing.

Brannon: 00:16:54

yeah, sure.

Brannon: 00:16:55

And that's something that everybody has to understand is that fundamentally every act of creation is also at some point an act of commerce, right?

Brannon: 00:17:02

This stuff doesn't make itself.

Brannon: 00:17:04

You've got to pay someone to make it or someone has to use their time, effort, energy, skills, gifts, and talents to go make it.

Brannon: 00:17:10

And, and that costs, right?

Brannon: 00:17:12

That costs something.

Brannon: 00:17:13

It either costs time, right?

Brannon: 00:17:14

Or it costs money.

Brannon: 00:17:15

And so, um, you have to understand the business side of it and you can't just go create things in a vacuum and hope that someone will find them and they will buy them because that's a way to get into the.

Brannon: 00:17:26

poor house real fast.

Jaclyn: 00:17:29

So just curious, I've been wondering as you're talking about like, you know, developing these episodes and stuff, um, I'm guessing that you probably have different projects that have different lengths for each episode, but if you could just give me an example of, you know, this is the length of one episode, and this is how much that length costs more or less.

Brannon: 00:17:48

Yeah.

Brannon: 00:17:48

So if, you're looking at the market, it's all across the board and streaming actually, the, kind of, the advent of streaming and the infiltration of streaming into the market has totally thrown all the standards out the window.

Brannon: 00:18:00

Used to, you know, like with broadcast or cable tv, there were set numbers.

Brannon: 00:18:05

Like you would have an episode that was an 11 minute episode.

Brannon: 00:18:08

It actually ran for 15 minutes, but the content was 11 minutes.

Brannon: 00:18:12

You had four minutes of commercials.

Brannon: 00:18:14

So you had 11s or 22s, right, , or you had, you know, a 44, which was an hour long block with time for commercials.

Brannon: 00:18:22

So all those standards went out the window.

Brannon: 00:18:24

And I'll give you a great example.

Brannon: 00:18:26

So, for instance, our Molly's Memoryverse, the little show I mentioned earlier about the little girl with the live stream, um, who's teaching scripture memorization.

Brannon: 00:18:34

We pitched that show as a three minute show to Yippee TV.

Brannon: 00:18:39

Um, because we thought, well, three minutes, that's gonna be tight, but we think we can get a good story in there, a nice story arc, a little character development.

Brannon: 00:18:45

And Yippee said, well, that's way too long.

Brannon: 00:18:47

Kids are not going to watch three minutes.

Brannon: 00:18:49

So give me a minute and a half.

Brannon: 00:18:51

And so we were like, wow.

Brannon: 00:18:53

And so we were able to do it right.

Brannon: 00:18:55

Um, and that was, that was a great thing.

Brannon: 00:18:57

but the challenge then becomes, you know, creating an interesting episode.

Brannon: 00:19:02

In a minute and a half that teaches what you want to teach, but also doesn't seem like it's the same thing over and over and over again.

Brannon: 00:19:09

And we were able to crack that nut by giving Molly different outfits.

Brannon: 00:19:14

So she changes her outfits a lot.

Brannon: 00:19:16

She's a little 2d character.

Brannon: 00:19:17

So it's not really hard to give her new outfits.

Brannon: 00:19:20

Um, and she goes to different places, different uh, and then also we change up the way the episode is structured.

Brannon: 00:19:28

So it's not the same.

Brannon: 00:19:30

progression of story each time, instead of Molly always having an answer, for instance, sometimes Molly doesn't know the answer and she asks the audience what they think.

Brannon: 00:19:39

And then that leads her to the scripture that they memorize and they learn something together.

Brannon: 00:19:43

So it's about understanding the structure of a story and being able to Be inventive and creative with that and still deliver the mail.

Brannon: 00:19:51

Um, now you ask about cost.

Brannon: 00:19:53

So, cost is completely dependent on four things when it comes to animation.

Brannon: 00:19:57

First is your script, right, which is your story.

Brannon: 00:20:00

So, does this script have a cast of thousands or does it have a cast of one?

Brannon: 00:20:04

Thousands are more expensive than one.

Brannon: 00:20:07

Uh, the second one is style.

Brannon: 00:20:09

Right.

Brannon: 00:20:09

Is it a very simple style?

Brannon: 00:20:11

Like, is it just stick figures, which are easy to draw and fast to change?

Brannon: 00:20:14

Or are they 3d characters with hair and, you know, cloth and capes and, all this stuff that's really expensive.

Brannon: 00:20:22

Um, the next is special effects, which you know, in film or in animation, special effects always costs more.

Brannon: 00:20:28

And then schedule is the last thing.

Brannon: 00:20:30

So if you want it tomorrow, it's going to cost a lot.

Brannon: 00:20:33

But if you can give me a year, I can give you a break on the price.

Brannon: 00:20:35

So those are the four things.

Brannon: 00:20:37

Uh, and animation, typically most secular animation, just getting into that space.

Brannon: 00:20:43

You're talking about thousands of dollars per minute of finished animation, uh, on the very, very cheap end.

Brannon: 00:20:49

Like if you go online and find a whiteboard or explainer video, then you're talking about, you know, probably a thousand bucks a minute So if it's five minutes, 5, 000 bucks, All the way up to like Pixar level, which is of course millions of dollars per finished minute.

Brannon: 00:21:06

So it really depends.

Brannon: 00:21:07

There's really no way to kind of say, oh that animation costs this much because there are so many Factors that can change things.

Brannon: 00:21:14

uh, for instance, if you just, if your characters have hair, like real hair and not just kind of like Lego hair where it's like, you know, just that alone can be, a 10 X cost multiplier because doing real hair.

Brannon: 00:21:29

requires simulations.

Brannon: 00:21:30

It requires some sort of process simulation where you're understanding how that hair is moving.

Brannon: 00:21:36

You know, Pixar is famous for doing this on Monsters, Inc.

Brannon: 00:21:40

with Sully, the big blue monster, right?

Brannon: 00:21:42

And all of his hairs, were moving individually and they had to figure out a way technologically to make that happen.

Brannon: 00:21:48

It was really hard, really technically challenging.

Brannon: 00:21:50

it's a little easier now because we've got the benefit of a lot of those sims, but It's still really difficult and it's difficult to make it look right.

Brannon: 00:21:57

And so, any little choice like that can lead you to a plus up in cost or, you know, conversely a good choice can lead you to, uh, you know, a plus down or a minus in cost.

Brannon: 00:22:08

So it's about understanding animation and what drives costs and writing your script, to really, tune it for animation.

Jaclyn: 00:22:15

my son actually is a video game programmer and, so I mean, don't fully understand what he does.

Jaclyn: 00:22:21

It's just, it's not my world.

Jaclyn: 00:22:23

Um, but I'm thinking as you're talking.

Jaclyn: 00:22:25

like basically physics and stuff like that is it similar, like is video game programming in animation for film?

Jaclyn: 00:22:33

Are they cousins?

Jaclyn: 00:22:34

Are they related at all?

Brannon: 00:22:36

I would say they're probably first cousins, and they're getting more and more integrated.

Brannon: 00:22:40

Um, like for instance, us using the Unreal game engine.

Brannon: 00:22:43

We get a lot of benefit from a lot of that in game physics stuff that happens, and we can bring that in to animation.

Brannon: 00:22:50

challenge, though, with using those sorts of simulations is that they're random every time.

Brannon: 00:22:55

the reason for that is it's faster to do it randomly each time.

Brannon: 00:22:59

The challenge with animation is, is when you're doing animation, you want it to be the same every time.

Brannon: 00:23:04

So you've got to figure out what are shots where we can use the simulation, and what are the shots where we have to control it in a more confined way, or what are the, what are What are the shots where we have to do it by hand?

Brannon: 00:23:14

We have to move every hair by hand to get that one emotional beat or that one moment that, you know, just makes that shot work.

Brannon: 00:23:23

And it's, it's really challenging.

Brannon: 00:23:24

So, I think the more that these, gaming engines progress, we'll see more of that blending.

Brannon: 00:23:29

We're already seeing a lot of it now.

Brannon: 00:23:31

Um, you know, for instance, the Mandalorian.

Brannon: 00:23:33

Uh, Disney's The Mandalorian, they're using the Unreal game engine to create the worlds that Mando goes to.

Brannon: 00:23:39

And, uh, they're using a great big volume, big LED wall to, you know, film against.

Brannon: 00:23:44

And, so, we do some of that kind of stuff as well.

Brannon: 00:23:47

But, it's, it's technically really tough and you have to know your P's and and it's typically not cheap.

Brannon: 00:23:53

to do that sort of stuff.

Jaclyn: 00:23:54

Is it more expensive to work with a green screen or, you know, like a live set, even if the set.

Jaclyn: 00:24:01

is maybe something that's not so simple.

Jaclyn: 00:24:03

get.

Jaclyn: 00:24:04

So like, say for example, if you wanted to, have a beach scene or something like that, would a green screen be a better option or, I mean, I guess there's going to be pros and cons to both, but can you just give me and our listeners something to think about with that regard?

Brannon: 00:24:21

Sure.

Brannon: 00:24:21

Um, it really, I think it depends on what, what you're trying to do.

Brannon: 00:24:24

What's your ultimate goal?

Brannon: 00:24:26

Uh, for instance, the work we did on the shift, the director Brock, he wanted to be able to jump through different worlds and have his character, you know, go from world to world.

Brannon: 00:24:34

And so, we were able to design those worlds and then we had to, you know, light those worlds in a specific way based on his direction.

Brannon: 00:24:41

Some of the worlds we had foreground elements, so we had to design the world to match those foreground elements.

Brannon: 00:24:48

And all that, you know, is, is not quick or easy and so, it's not cheap.

Brannon: 00:24:52

But if, you just want to throw someone against a, you know, a background, you can do that really easily with an LED wall.

Brannon: 00:24:58

You can do it cheaper with a green screen.

Brannon: 00:25:00

Um, but even there, there are some, you know, there's some gives and takes.

Brannon: 00:25:03

You want to make sure that green screen is really high quality.

Brannon: 00:25:06

You want to make sure it's well lit.

Brannon: 00:25:08

because you know, when you go to do your chroma key and your replacement, if it's not well lit, and if it's not a high quality green screen, you're going to get a lot of artifacts that are left over and it's going to look a little bit muddy.

Brannon: 00:25:18

So you definitely want to make sure that, what I always encourage people to do is say, Hey, whatever the maximum of your budget.

Brannon: 00:25:25

can afford for a given VX shot, you want to spend that much because, what will typically happen is you'll spend that much and you'll still be a little dissatisfied with the end result.

Brannon: 00:25:35

you don't want to skimp on visual effects because if you do them well,

Brannon: 00:25:38

will never see them and they won't be pulled out of the story.

Brannon: 00:25:41

But if you do them poorly, they'll disrupt the suspension of disbelief and you'll lose people, you'll, lose your viewers and you could damage the, potential impact of your story.

Geoff: 00:25:51

know what, I find that very interesting and we didn't get a chance to talk much about, effects side of things.

Geoff: 00:25:57

I would love to talk with you more, maybe dive deeper into your work on the shift and that type of work in general for others out there in the film industry who work in that area or would like to or would like to know more.

Geoff: 00:26:11

I think that would be a great, uh, topic to touch on in the bonus episode

Brannon: 00:26:14

Yeah, Geoff, I'd love to.

Brannon: 00:26:15

Now, bear in mind, we're just stepping into this VFX world ourselves.

Brannon: 00:26:19

Um, as it, as it integrates with film, we've done a fair amount on the animation side, but there are some really, really smart folks that are in this industry as well that I could point you to.

Brannon: 00:26:29

But yeah, we'd love to tell you about our experience on the shift.

Brannon: 00:26:31

We had a blast, so we'd love to talk about that.

Brannon: 00:26:33

Jaclyn - BadAudio - Brandon Hollingsworth: And, uh,

Geoff: 00:26:35

have any, thing you would like to add before we're done?

Geoff: 00:26:38

And of course, take the opportunity to,

Geoff: 00:26:40

towards your website or whatever, things you would like to, promote at this moment.

Brannon: 00:26:45

Yeah, sure.

Brannon: 00:26:46

So, um, super happy to be on the podcast with you all today.

Brannon: 00:26:49

Thank you so much for having

Geoff: 00:26:50

Very happy to have you.

Brannon: 00:26:51

And anybody can, connect with us at our website.

Brannon: 00:26:53

It's brainypixel.

Brannon: 00:26:55

com.

Brannon: 00:26:55

That's B R A I N Y pixel, P I X E L dot com.

Brannon: 00:26:59

All one word.

Brannon: 00:27:00

And we're also really active on social media, on just about every platform out there.

Brannon: 00:27:05

We're either at, Brainy Pixel over at Brainy Pixel Productions.

Brannon: 00:27:10

And, is looking to be a very, uh, a very active year for us.

Brannon: 00:27:16

So definitely follow us and engage with us.

Brannon: 00:27:18

There's going to be a lot happening and, um, and we're super blessed to be a part of this amazing industry and get to be creative every day for Jesus.

Brannon: 00:27:26

That's just an amazing blessing.

Brannon: 00:27:28

So.

Geoff: 00:27:28

Well, we'll certainly look forward to following and, seeing what happens in the, coming year.

Brannon: 00:27:32

Yeah, absolutely.

Geoff: 00:27:33

Perfect.

Geoff: 00:27:34

Thank you so much for your time.

Brannon: 00:27:35

My pleasure.

Brannon: 00:27:36

Bye Bye

Geoff: 00:27:37

Take care.