BONUS: Career Advice for Actors, with Jean Wenger

Jaclyn: 00:00:00

Welcome to the members only portion of the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast.

Jaclyn: 00:00:04

I'm Jaclyn and Geoff is here with me.

Jaclyn: 00:00:07

And today we have Jean Wenger of Treasure Coast Talent, and we're talking about what actors need to know in order to get into acting.

Jaclyn: 00:00:16

So my first question right now is, for somebody who starts off as background acting, is that a way to launch an acting career?

Jean: 00:00:26

I think that's a fabulous question.

Jean: 00:00:29

And I believe that being a background actor is a wonderful way to get started.

Jean: 00:00:35

I call it a master class on set.

Jean: 00:00:38

It's important.

Jean: 00:00:39

You learn so many things.

Jean: 00:00:40

You learn terminology.

Jean: 00:00:41

You learn set etiquette.

Jean: 00:00:43

And you get to be in a room with very experienced actors and getting to watch them being masters at their own craft.

Jean: 00:00:51

So being a background actor is fabulous.

Jean: 00:00:54

Along with that, I also say getting hired to work crew on a set, same thing.

Jean: 00:00:59

You're learning the behind the scenes about the industry, and you're also getting to see some of the greats do their work..

Jean: 00:01:06

And I, I think it's a fabulous way to start and many of my actors on my roster got started that same way, either coming from, doing stage work and then getting into film, or just with no acting experience starting by doing background acting or working crew.

Jean: 00:01:24

So, anytime that you can get yourself on set, um, to actually get to watch and just observe and learn is absolutely wonderful.

Jean: 00:01:34

Highly recommend it.

Jaclyn: 00:01:37

And is that for the sake of just gaining the experience of being on set, or is it possible to actually, end up getting, uh, a more, involved acting position.

Jean: 00:01:48

Yeah, sometimes it is about building relationships when you're on set, but what you don't want to do is, get a job as a background or a crew with the goal of, Like, I'm going to come there because I want to get cast in another project, a future project.

Jean: 00:02:02

Because then you kind of come with a different attitude and tone, not as a team player for the job that you've been hired to do.

Jean: 00:02:09

But you're only thinking about your end game, and the people on the set can see that.

Jean: 00:02:15

And they need to be, have you all in for the job that you're hired to do.

Jean: 00:02:20

And then when you're not filming, when you're not working, when you're not on set, It's about building that relationship when you're done working with them.

Jean: 00:02:27

But it's, it's important not to kind of cross those boundaries when you're on set.

Jean: 00:02:32

When the director is on break, you know, getting their first break of the day and you're running over to them saying, Hey, can I get an acting job in the future?

Jean: 00:02:40

And can you put me in, you know, so it's always important to understand that set etiquette and those boundaries.

Jean: 00:02:46

But it does build relationships.

Jean: 00:02:48

If you come and every time you're on set, you're professional, you're a hard worker, you're a team player, you know your job and you stick to it, you're respecting the actors on set and not bothering them.

Jean: 00:02:59

If you learn all that stuff, then they will remember you and you will be invited back and eventually you might be able to be offered a job, but not because you're chasing them down and being aggressive about it.

Jaclyn: 00:03:11

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:03:11

You're establishing a reputation.

Jean: 00:03:13

Yeah, and just building relationships without the goal of just getting something from them.

Jean: 00:03:18

You know what I mean?

Jean: 00:03:19

Because some people are always, what can I get from you?

Jean: 00:03:22

But no, when you're hired to be on set, you're there to give and you're there to add value, not see what value you can take from it.

Jean: 00:03:29

So it's important to understand those boundaries.

Geoff: 00:03:32

That makes a lot of sense.

Jaclyn: 00:03:33

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:03:33

Filmmaking is so much a collaborative effort and yeah, when everybody is all in, then it can be something amazing.

Jaclyn: 00:03:41

So how important is it for new actors, let's say they want to branch beyond, background acting.

Jaclyn: 00:03:48

How important is it to have a demo reel and what does a demo reel do for an actor?

Jean: 00:03:54

Well, demo rules are super, super important.

Jean: 00:03:57

I mean, that's basically a sampling of your best work.

Jean: 00:04:00

So, to begin with, you need to have work to get clips of, to get samples of, to put in a reel.

Jean: 00:04:08

So, that's where it just goes back to create your own material.

Jean: 00:04:11

But you need to take acting classes so you know how to act.

Jean: 00:04:15

It takes a lot of training, a lot of hard work before you ever get to the point where you have the materials for a reel.

Jean: 00:04:21

Some actors can even just practice by writing a very, very short scene and filming it.

Jean: 00:04:27

Filming it with a friend with a camera or setting up a tripod and filming it.

Jean: 00:04:31

Monologues are a great way to start, because you can choose comedic monologues, you can choose dramatic monologues.

Jean: 00:04:38

But record yourself doing these monologues.

Jean: 00:04:41

And for me, what I always say is, you know, are you believable or are you in your head and I can tell you're acting.

Jean: 00:04:48

Because casting directors don't want people who are pretending to be a character but you need to really work on developing, becoming that character and being believable.

Jean: 00:04:58

So, before you get to the reel, you need to understand what's the purpose of the reel.

Jean: 00:05:03

And if, if you don't have good material because you haven't trained and you don't know how to act, then the reel is not going to help you get more work.

Jean: 00:05:09

So it's better to not have a reel, then have a reel that is, bad.

Jean: 00:05:14

So you can go online and you can look up great reels.

Jean: 00:05:17

You know, you can follow a lot of, of think about your, the actors that you are following on social media.

Jean: 00:05:23

You can usually view their reels there.

Jean: 00:05:25

They'll share them or they'll have them on IMDB.

Jean: 00:05:28

And watch the reels and see what it takes to make a great reel.

Jean: 00:05:31

And figure out how you can start booking roles, even if it's unpaid.

Jean: 00:05:36

If there's value to it, that you can get a clip from the movie for your reel, then, then it's definitely worth it.

Jean: 00:05:42

So we've booked some really great roles, uh, with actors on my roster from a reel that contain clips from movies that they weren't even paid for.

Jean: 00:05:51

They were volunteer roles, but we took the role because it was a chance to get the clips of them playing a certain type of character that we didn't already have on the reel.

Jean: 00:06:00

So we're always strategic and going, okay.

Jean: 00:06:03

Is there value in this besides the actual day rate?

Jean: 00:06:06

Yes or no?

Jean: 00:06:07

And when you're further along in your career, you can be pickier as you go.

Jean: 00:06:11

A real is super important, but you need to have that foundation first.

Jaclyn: 00:06:15

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:06:15

And I've actually helped some actors, uh, like I've written some demo reels so that they can go and produce them.

Jaclyn: 00:06:23

A demo reel is kind of a catch 22, like, when you're looking for your first job, it's like, okay, well you need experience so you can get a job, oh, but you need a job so you can get experience, you know.

Jaclyn: 00:06:32

Yeah, exactly.

Jaclyn: 00:06:34

And so, this is kind of a way around that.

Jaclyn: 00:06:36

If you work with a writer who can write you a good scene, then you can record that.

Jaclyn: 00:06:42

It's going to take a bit of an investment because you need to hire a writer and you need to hire the production company, you know, and whatever.

Jaclyn: 00:06:47

But for myself, when I've worked with actors, I mean, I know how to write, to a budget.

Jaclyn: 00:06:53

I know how to write to, you know, the locations that I'm given.

Jaclyn: 00:06:56

I always ask like what emotion do you want to bring out of it?

Jaclyn: 00:07:00

Because then I can really work with that.

Jaclyn: 00:07:03

And some actors, they want to have an opportunity to show a lot of facial expressions.

Jaclyn: 00:07:08

They're less about the line delivery.

Jaclyn: 00:07:10

And other ones, they want the lines So if you know where your strengths are and you can play up to your strengths and you work with a writer and a production company, like you can, you can get that.

Jaclyn: 00:07:21

And it'll look like it's from a movie or a TV show.

Jaclyn: 00:07:25

Like, it'll look like it's from something that's bigger than just this one scene that you're

Geoff: 00:07:30

than

Jean: 00:07:30

casting directors say, We don't care if you made it or if it was from a film, all we need to do is see you acting.

Jean: 00:07:37

Can you act?

Jean: 00:07:38

Are you believable?

Jean: 00:07:40

And, you know, just like with an audition tape, uh, with a reel, can you be seen clearly?

Jean: 00:07:44

Can you be heard clearly?

Jean: 00:07:46

I know one of my pet peeves of reels are when, the reel scene has multiple people in it.

Jean: 00:07:52

And I'm not familiar with the actor and I have trouble figuring out which person I'm supposed to be looking at.

Jean: 00:07:59

And so, you know, there's a lot of things that you want to focus on.

Jean: 00:08:02

Make sure that you're clearly recognizable in it.

Jean: 00:08:06

Make sure the camera starts on you in the scene if you're creating your own work and there's multiple people in it.

Jean: 00:08:13

Make sure you can be heard clearly, seen clearly.

Jean: 00:08:15

But yeah, demo reels now, we have the technology to be able to create our own really, really great clips to put into a demo reel.

Jean: 00:08:23

Until we have footage from a feature film, or we can always swap things out along the way as we're building our reel, but there's no excuse for somebody to say, oh I don't have a reel so I can't be an actor.

Jean: 00:08:33

If you find the right people, and like you said, you have to pay money hire the right people to do the work to help you create a reel, but you can do it.

Jean: 00:08:41

And if, if you're willing to do the work,

Jaclyn: 00:08:43

Yeah,

Jean: 00:08:44

it can happen for sure.

Jean: 00:08:45

I normally ask my actors for a reel, which is like a range reel, like a theatrical range reel, a commercial reel.

Jean: 00:08:52

But then individual clips or scenes that sometimes are longer versions of what's in the reel, um, if it's showcasing a specific type of character that they're playing, so that when I'm submitting them to a casting breakdown, I'll see the description of the character and I'll be like, Okay, like here's an example: One of my actors has a great reel, and has also clipped out her reel and has titled them the type of character she's playing.

Jean: 00:09:19

And in the one particular scene, she has it titled, Over Eager Office Assistant.

Jean: 00:09:25

So immediately your brain, you can just picture what this, this character is like.

Jean: 00:09:29

So she has it labeled, so if I see any type of casting featuring a quirky type of person like that, in that type of role, I select that clip separately, as well as send over her whole reel so they can see more of what she can do.

Jean: 00:09:44

So the more materials I get as an agent from my actors, the more I can customize the submission.

Jean: 00:09:49

Which oftentimes increases our chances of getting an audition request from the casting.

Jean: 00:09:54

Versus if I have say, one reel and the actors decide to combine their more serious dramatic stuff, their comedic stuff, their commercial stuff, and it's all mushed together.

Jean: 00:10:04

And say that it's a comedic role I'm submitting them for and the comedic part is that they're very end of the reel.

Jean: 00:10:10

Casting's not even going to see it.

Jean: 00:10:11

They'll watch the first few seconds and they're like, yeah, I don't think this person fits this role.

Jean: 00:10:15

So it's important to not only have the full, you know, range reel, but also have it clipped out into very specific types that you're playing.

Jean: 00:10:23

It just gives me a lot of options, just like with headshots.

Jean: 00:10:26

I want all different looks so I can kind of pick and choose and customize my submissions.

Geoff: 00:10:31

Jean, I'm I'm guessing that, there's a lot that still has to go into that relationship, and a lot is still needed on the actor side once they have an agent and it's not just a matter of sitting back and expecting things to happen.

Jean: 00:10:44

Sometimes a newer actor, thinks that, the end goal is to get an agent.

Jean: 00:10:49

Like, I've made it when I have an agent.

Jean: 00:10:51

And we're going, oh no, you're just beginning.

Jean: 00:10:53

Because we're going to make you work, work, work.

Geoff: 00:10:56

Uh huh.

Jean: 00:10:57

Now, every agent's different.

Jean: 00:10:59

There are some agents who have huge rosters.

Jean: 00:11:01

I mean, just massive rosters.

Jean: 00:11:02

And it's very much a database driven relationship.

Jean: 00:11:06

With me, one of the reasons I choose to have my roster small is because it's a very personal relationship.

Jean: 00:11:11

Communication is super, super key to me.

Jean: 00:11:14

So I'm expecting my actors, I always say, you know, I'm going to be working 100 percent on your career, but you also need to be working 100 percent on your career.

Jean: 00:11:22

Don't sign with me and then say, okay, now Jean's going to do all the work.

Jean: 00:11:26

I just have to sit back and wait for the auditions to roll in.

Jean: 00:11:29

But my actors, I encourage them to be self submitting on a daily basis.

Jean: 00:11:33

They should be logging into their casting sites.

Jean: 00:11:36

Looking for roles and self submitting all the time while I'm also doing it.

Jean: 00:11:41

It's just maximizing opportunities and then we work on them together.

Jean: 00:11:45

Some actors will, will start out going, Oh, well, I'll have an agent and I'll, I'll work with them on things they submit before, but then I'll be working like I'm, unepresented on the stuff I find myself.

Jean: 00:11:57

And I'm going, that's not going to really make your agent want to work hard for you.

Jean: 00:12:01

If they see you're also kind of doing your side gigs by yourself.

Jean: 00:12:04

Oh, well they didn't submit me.

Jean: 00:12:05

I could just book it by myself and not loop in my agent.

Jean: 00:12:08

It really is a partnership.

Jean: 00:12:09

It's a relationship.

Jean: 00:12:10

It's built on a lot of trust and hard work.

Jean: 00:12:13

So communicating with your agent, bringing them in on all the submissions, bookings together, letting them advise and guide you and kind of, you know, Sharing in the wins together is super, super important.

Jean: 00:12:25

I'm always asking my actors, you know, let me know any updates on your end.

Jean: 00:12:29

Reach out to me and let me know if you've added new headshots to the casting site.

Jean: 00:12:33

If you've added new reels.

Jean: 00:12:35

Let me know if you've heard from a director or producer so I can follow up on your behalf.

Jean: 00:12:39

So if the actor never reaches out to me, Never communicates with me.

Jean: 00:12:44

Yeah, it's very easy for them to fall off my radar and the actors who are Really putting in the time and work on building that relationship and communicating are going to be on my radar on a more regular basis.

Jean: 00:12:56

So it's true that it makes a difference.

Jean: 00:12:59

now if they're reaching out to me saying So, can you tell me what you've been submitting me for?

Jean: 00:13:05

Like, what are you doing for me?

Jean: 00:13:06

Like, all the time...

Jean: 00:13:07

You know, if it's one sided like that, um, then it also isn't helpful.

Jean: 00:13:12

You know, reach out to me and let me know, like, what classes have you taken recently?

Jean: 00:13:16

What film festivals have you attended?

Jean: 00:13:18

Who have you met, met with for coffee?

Jean: 00:13:20

It needs to be a kind of a two sided relationship.

Jean: 00:13:22

Don't just always come asking the agent to tell you stuff.

Jean: 00:13:25

Make sure you're equally offering new information, on your end as well.

Geoff: 00:13:30

So, tell me, um, once you have submitted them for casting to a casting director, and then you get a request for an audition, how does that proceed, and what is your continued involvement?

Geoff: 00:13:42

With the contract perhaps, and those types of things?

Jean: 00:13:45

Great question.

Jean: 00:13:45

Yeah, once I get an audition request, it goes through me.

Jean: 00:13:49

I pass it on to the actor.

Jean: 00:13:50

They normally do the audition.

Jean: 00:13:52

Comes back to me.

Jean: 00:13:53

I pass it back on to casting.

Jean: 00:13:55

And then if we get an offer, I review everything with the actor.

Jean: 00:13:59

Normally we ask for a copy of the script because oftentimes we don't get the script right up front.

Jean: 00:14:04

We just get the sides for the actual audition.

Jean: 00:14:07

And then if the actor is interested in proceeding, that's where I go to work to review the contract, negotiate the contract, ask questions.

Jean: 00:14:16

It's great because then the actor gets to just focus on the creative side of it.

Jean: 00:14:20

Um, I work on the business side for them so that they can focus on, you know, learning the script, preparing for their character, showing up on set, and they haven't had to talk about all the, uncomfortable stuff, which is like the rate and

Jaclyn: 00:14:34

The money.

Jean: 00:14:35

All the money stuff.

Jean: 00:14:36

Um, I have some actors that, you know, they've been direct offer, um, offer only for years, and they brought me on cause they're just like, I want somebody to handle all that for me.

Jean: 00:14:46

You know what I mean?

Jean: 00:14:46

They don't even audition anymore, but they're like, we want an agent that can deal with all that stuff so I can just focus on preparing to get to set and do my job.

Jean: 00:14:55

So, um, I advise and guide, I ask the questions, I negotiate the contracts.

Jean: 00:14:59

And so I work as an advocate on their behalf.

Jean: 00:15:03

And then in turn, what I get is, 10 percent commission.

Jean: 00:15:07

Usually it's covered by the producer.

Jean: 00:15:09

Um, and that's 1 of the things I negotiate as a part of the rate that they will pay the 10 percent commission.

Jean: 00:15:15

And if for some reason it's a lower budget project, and they can't afford paying the commissions on top of the actor's rate, then my 10 percent comes out of the actor's pay.

Jean: 00:15:24

So everything I do is fully on commission, which is not an easy job either.

Jean: 00:15:29

Because I could work 40 hours a week and make absolutely zero dollars.

Jean: 00:15:34

the only way I get paid is when my actors get paid and then I only get 10%.

Jean: 00:15:39

So, um, When actors are thinking that they should let the agent do all the work, I'm going, uh, we're getting 10 percent of what you're gonna make.

Jean: 00:15:48

You need to step it up and, work a little harder here.

Jean: 00:15:51

So it's, fair.

Jean: 00:15:51

You know what I mean?

Geoff: 00:15:53

Yeah, and anybody who isn't, fully aware, there's a lot more to it than, finding them work.

Geoff: 00:15:58

This whole contract negotiation thing, especially for somebody who hasn't been in the industry for a long time, how do you even approach that?

Geoff: 00:16:08

I wouldn't know how to do it, and just because somebody has taken some acting classes and even volunteered on some sets or done some jobs for friends...

Geoff: 00:16:16

They're not gonna know the ins and outs of, how to get the best rate that they can get on that job where you've got the experience to, to not only negotiate, but know the difference, from a job where you can get more or where you need to get a little less.

Jean: 00:16:29

Yeah.

Jean: 00:16:30

And when you're starting out, I mean, really, you don't have a lot of room to negotiate.

Jean: 00:16:34

You know, if an actor comes in and said, Oh, I want more money for this.

Jean: 00:16:38

I'm like, well, You know, your resume, your experience, all those things are going to be a determining factor.

Jean: 00:16:45

What I normally do with my actors is whatever rate I start working with them at, our goal is to continually to be increasing that at a reasonable measure with each project they do based on the project's budget.

Jean: 00:16:58

You know, if you're working on a, um, a SAG, a union project, that's, 20 million, obviously, you're going to expect a higher rate than a very small budget, non union project, which could be a very, very small rate.

Jean: 00:17:13

And so, wherever you are in your career and experience, the budget of the film project , there's a lot of factors that go into it.

Jean: 00:17:19

But that's where I can advise and guide the actor.

Jean: 00:17:21

I think this is a fair ask, you know, what do you think?

Jean: 00:17:24

And we talk about it.

Jean: 00:17:25

And I never make a decision on behalf of my actor without talking to them first.

Jean: 00:17:30

I think it's really important that they understand...

Jean: 00:17:33

talk to me, I'll talk to the production, but I'm not going to automatically accept or decline anything without coming back to you . Because part of my job is to, um, advise and guide, but I work for the actor and I think it's important for, for people to understand that, I'm not the boss.

Jean: 00:17:49

They're the boss, but I have a lot of knowledge that they might not have.

Jean: 00:17:53

So it's really a partnership, for sure.

Jaclyn: 00:17:55

Hmm.

Jaclyn: 00:17:55

Yeah, absolutely.

Jaclyn: 00:17:56

And like for somebody who's, say a new actor, and let's say they get a commercial work, so they have like one day of work, but when they look at their contract, they might be excited with whatever they're being offered, you know, for the payment of one day of work, but they may not look at what the contract means as far as how long their ad is going to run, how long they're restricted from doing other work within that same market.

Jaclyn: 00:18:21

If they don't have the wherewithal to, to look at that, they might get themselves caught in a situation unknowingly simply because they lack the experience.

Jean: 00:18:30

Yeah, Yeah, the in perpetuity deals are one of the most challenging with commercials.

Jean: 00:18:35

Basically, youknow the commercial can last forever and ever and ever and ever and you got paid once and that's it.

Jean: 00:18:41

So it's very important to understand the terminology and you know a lot of it is just me answering questions of my actors and advising them and guiding them.

Jean: 00:18:49

Ultimately, they make the decision that they feel is best for them, but yeah, there's a lot of ins and outs, a lot of details that you learn along the way the more you work in the industry for sure.

Jaclyn: 00:19:00

Jean, I want to thank you so much for, uh, being here today and for sharing all of this wisdom and the information.

Jaclyn: 00:19:08

I really hope that our new actors are going to, glean a lot from it and that they'll feel encouraged and have some direction.

Jaclyn: 00:19:16

Before we finish this interview, I just want to ask if you have any final thoughts.

Jean: 00:19:20

Well, it has been a pleasure speaking with you both.

Jean: 00:19:22

I'm honored to be a guest on your show.

Jean: 00:19:25

And I would say the one thing that I've learned along the way is the importance of having balance.

Jean: 00:19:31

It's great to have a career that you want to pursue and you do have to work so hard at it, but you need to also learn to balance it with the other areas of your life.

Jean: 00:19:42

Because there was a time when I started out, it was literally, I just ate and slept and everything was, was about my job.

Jean: 00:19:49

And it got to the point where I was just burning out, and it was not fair to my family as well because they were losing me to my job all the time.

Jean: 00:19:59

So I would just say, you can work hard, but you also have to give yourself boundaries and you have to find balance in your life.

Jean: 00:20:06

One of the biggest changes I've done personally in the last couple of years is taking the weekends off.

Jean: 00:20:11

Not working seven days a week like I used to do, and having your, your hours during the day.

Jean: 00:20:17

Obviously, there's always exceptions, but I really try and keep my work hours, my work hours.

Jean: 00:20:22

And then when my work day is done, I'm all about family.

Jean: 00:20:25

I'm, I'm very, very present for my family.

Jean: 00:20:28

So I would just say, just as a reminder, to just keep your balance, you know, make sure that you're not all consumed by your pursuits in your career, but also make sure, that you're, you're spending time focusing on, um, your faith and your family and your friends and just enjoying life as well, because that balance is super important

Jean: 00:20:48

. Jaclyn: Thank you, that's a very important thought.

Jean: 00:20:50

I know as a creative person, it's really easy to just get wrapped up in your creative art and you know, miss out on some of the other things that are in your life that you need to make sure that you don't, uh, drop the ball with.

Jean: 00:21:03

Um, so yeah, that's, that's really great advice.

Jean: 00:21:05

Thank you so much.

Jean: 00:21:06

You're welcome.

Jean: 00:21:07

Awesome.

Jean: 00:21:08

Great chatting with you guys.

Geoff: 00:21:09

Good to see you again, Jean.

Geoff: 00:21:10

Thank you so much.

Jaclyn: 00:21:11

God Bless.