Mama Bear: Nurturing Talent On Set

Jaclyn: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast.

Jaclyn: 00:00:02

My name is Jaclyn, and today I've got Susan Willis with me.

Jaclyn: 00:00:06

Susan grew up in a Navy family and has lived on two islands, but grew up mainly on the Gulf Coast.

Jaclyn: 00:00:13

later served in the US Air Force, where she also met her husband and started a family post-military.

Jaclyn: 00:00:19

Susan entered the coffee business world working at several coffee shops, including owning her own shop from 2006 to 2010.

Jaclyn: 00:00:27

Although she has been acting since high school.

Jaclyn: 00:00:30

She found her call into the film industry in 2013, both on and off camera, acting, casting, and even some directing and light producing of her own short films.

Jaclyn: 00:00:41

She loves to help things run smoothly on set and is not afraid to jump in and help out as needed, which is how she acquired the name of Mama Bear.

Jaclyn: 00:00:51

Susan is married to her very supportive husband, Brian, and they have two grown children and one granddaughter.

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Susan resides in South Carolina.

Jaclyn: 00:01:00

Is that what SC stands for?

Jaclyn: 00:01:03

You tell me 'cause I'm not from this, I, I'm not from America.

Jaclyn: 00:01:06

So is is sc, South Carolina.

Jaclyn: 00:01:09

Okay.

Jaclyn: 00:01:09

Susan resides in South Carolina near Augusta, Georgia is, GA is Georgia.

Jaclyn: 00:01:14

Right.

Jaclyn: 00:01:15

Okay.

Jaclyn: 00:01:16

Welcome to the podcast, Susan.

Jaclyn: 00:01:20

Oh, I love when my Canadian just gets in the way here.

Susan: 00:01:24

You know, growing up in school, we had to learn the.

Susan: 00:01:27

Two letter abbreviation of all of the states.

Susan: 00:01:29

And so I guess I just assumed everybody knew that,

Jaclyn: 00:01:32

Well, I'm sure everybody in the United States does well.

Jaclyn: 00:01:35

Can you tell me where AB is in Canada?

Susan: 00:01:38

you know?

Susan: 00:01:38

Is that Alberta

Jaclyn: 00:01:39

It's, you did it.

Jaclyn: 00:01:41

Good job.

Susan: 00:01:42

now?

Susan: 00:01:42

Geographically?

Susan: 00:01:43

I'm not sure.

Jaclyn: 00:01:44

Right, right.

Jaclyn: 00:01:45

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:01:46

See, I know my own country, but I am learning the United States because I work with so many people that live there, and so I do need to be mindful of time zones When I'm booking appointments with people, so, so yes.

Jaclyn: 00:01:59

I, I am learning,

Susan: 00:02:01

some states are harder, especially the Arizona, Arkansas, Alaska, Alabama.

Susan: 00:02:05

Those all are special.

Jaclyn: 00:02:07

yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:02:08

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:02:08

I don't, I don't know.

Jaclyn: 00:02:10

I just actually, I always just look it up to be sure, because I'm not entirely sure, like there are some, because I grew up on the west coast, so I know Washington and California.

Susan: 00:02:22

Okay, well I was born in California, but wasn't there long.

Jaclyn: 00:02:25

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:02:26

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:02:26

And, and I did visit Oregon once, so, um, yeah, those are, it's more where I'm familiar from the West coast, so, yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:02:35

Alright, well, we're not here to talk about me or geography.

Jaclyn: 00:02:38

Let's talk about you.

Jaclyn: 00:02:40

So Susan, how did you get into the, the film industry?

Jaclyn: 00:02:44

Like, it said that you did some acting when you were growing up, but, how did that move into a career for you?

Susan: 00:02:49

Well, you know, of course everyone is.

Susan: 00:02:51

Well, when I was in that, that second grade play or whatever, um, high school really kicked it off.

Susan: 00:02:56

I, I signed up for drama and I just absolutely loved, it.

Susan: 00:03:01

But then of course, my path led me to the military and so performing and things like that, that was not a thing.

Susan: 00:03:07

Um, and then when I got out of the military and, when we settled here in South Carolina and we became active with a church, of course, the drama ministry there, I was drawn to it.

Susan: 00:03:18

And, uh, the narration for the Christmas and Easter Cantatas musicals and all of those things.

Susan: 00:03:24

Um, a couple of roles as singing characters, which was a little terrifying.

Susan: 00:03:28

Um.

Susan: 00:03:29

Then I also, I don't know if I put this in my bio, but I sang for about 12 years with a Women's Barbershop, chorus, um, it's called the Sweet Ade Lions.

Susan: 00:03:39

And then I also was with a quartet.

Susan: 00:03:40

So of course performing that is, is just so much fun, you know, because you get that thrill, like live theater.

Susan: 00:03:46

I've done a little bit of theater,

Susan: 00:03:48

and then like many other of my faith and family, filmmaker, family people, um, with AMTC, um, actors, models, talent for Christ.

Susan: 00:03:58

And I had not heard of it until a friend from church told me she was going to this showcase thing or signing up for this program about doing this as a career.

Susan: 00:04:07

And I was like, really?

Susan: 00:04:08

That's a thing.

Susan: 00:04:09

I, I didn't know that.

Susan: 00:04:11

Like acting.

Susan: 00:04:11

I watch shows, but I'm not addicted to any one thing.

Susan: 00:04:15

Um, I had a couple of favorites growing up.

Susan: 00:04:19

But you know, the military just kind of consumes your, your time and then raising a family.

Susan: 00:04:22

We had the kids, so it was just whatever they were interested in.

Susan: 00:04:26

So my kids were a little older, middle school and high school, and I thought, you know, I'm gonna need something to fall back on whenever I have an empty nest, and this would be great.

Susan: 00:04:35

Uh, I was no longer in the military, the coffee shop jobs, you know, were in and out and I just ended up becoming a homemaker.

Susan: 00:04:43

I wanted to work, but it was just hard to find my niche.

Susan: 00:04:46

Um, and so I went through the AMTC program and, came out of that.

Susan: 00:04:52

Where, um, I had entered the world of background, so working background work, which of course, where I live two hours, two and a half hours driving to Atlanta, doing background work.

Susan: 00:05:02

That's when I learned all about being on a film set and it was, it was a big rush, and I would do that.

Susan: 00:05:08

I did that probably for about two, two and a half years, off and on.

Susan: 00:05:13

Put lots of miles on my car, made lots of friends in Atlanta so I could stay on their couches.

Susan: 00:05:18

Mostly Atlanta, uh, sometimes Charleston, sometimes Savannah area.

Jaclyn: 00:05:22

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:05:23

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:05:23

So,

Susan: 00:05:24

no longer doing background work.

Jaclyn: 00:05:26

Well, and then so casting, did that come out of necessity or was that something that you were feeling drawn to?

Susan: 00:05:33

Oh, so.

Susan: 00:05:34

I met a gentleman here in the Augusta area who was looking for some help on a shoot.

Susan: 00:05:40

He was doing this, film shoot, to feature our local police department, like a recruiting tool for the local police force.

Susan: 00:05:47

And it was gonna be a long shoot, and it was my first time that I had discovered anybody right here in Augusta.

Susan: 00:05:54

And I thought, wow, I don't have to drive to Atlanta.

Susan: 00:05:56

Well, I ended up being pretty much his personal assistant.

Susan: 00:06:00

as his wrangler, of other people and just kind of helping him keep his brain focused on the task and answering phone calls and fielding all of this stuff and kind of following him around, looked like a puppy

Susan: 00:06:11

dog learning.

Susan: 00:06:12

and it's so funny 'cause a lot of people on that particular shoot, which lasted.

Susan: 00:06:17

Off and on for about two weeks.

Susan: 00:06:18

But I saw the most impressive aspects of the police department, from the drug dogs to the bomb robot, to, um, watching things blow up and just how they, how they operate was so cool.

Susan: 00:06:32

I'm still friends with several of those people who are really doing well in their film industry.

Susan: 00:06:37

That was where I was a grip for the first time, carying dolly tracks and putting it together.

Susan: 00:06:43

It was so fun to just learn that aspect.

Susan: 00:06:46

Then I started meeting more people who wanted to do film in the area, but they needed background.

Susan: 00:06:52

So I, since I had all of this background in background from driving to Atlanta, I thought, well, I know how all of those casting companies word their emails, how they recruit people, what they used, you know, before they were putting background calls on actors access, they were just using Facebook and social media.

Susan: 00:07:10

So I learned all the lingo and I thought, well, I'll just do that here.

Susan: 00:07:14

Because one of the things that I learned in A MTC was I said, I could see myself coming back and teaching and helping with this program, and I always have that little teacher in me.

Susan: 00:07:24

So I thought, well, I can just help.

Susan: 00:07:27

They said, if it's not in your area, build it.

Jaclyn: 00:07:29

Right.

Susan: 00:07:31

it's kind of interesting to think back that when I. Learned all of the background protocol and how to word it all.

Susan: 00:07:39

I just kind of pulled together all of those resources and wordings and I started creating background casting calls for some local projects and it kind of grew and I, on my very first set.

Susan: 00:07:54

which was a feature film of a friend of mine who right now she works as a first and second ad, but she's quite an amazing writer and a director.

Susan: 00:08:03

Um, she wrote a film in honor of her sister, and I was kind of the central hub.

Susan: 00:08:09

I was a lot of things.

Susan: 00:08:11

I was gathering catering, I was handling crafty.

Susan: 00:08:13

I was base camp pa. I was, they called me a unit production coordinator.

Susan: 00:08:17

I'm like, now that I know what that really is, I'm just laughing.

Susan: 00:08:20

I'm like, no, no, no.

Susan: 00:08:21

I was not A-U-P-M-I was not a UPM.

Susan: 00:08:23

I helped gather the background and that's where I kind of got the title of Mama Bear.

Susan: 00:08:27

Because I just wanted to take care of everybody.

Susan: 00:08:30

I'm like, do you have water?

Susan: 00:08:31

Oh, you're sweating.

Susan: 00:08:32

Let me get you a cold towel.

Susan: 00:08:33

I that, just where I flock to is to make sure people are okay and hydrated and healthy and fed and all of that.

Susan: 00:08:41

So that just grew.

Susan: 00:08:42

And then when a few feature films started coming to the Augusta area, they knew me and I was able to help train people.

Susan: 00:08:51

What a day in the life of a background.

Susan: 00:08:53

Actor is that it's not just you walk by a film set and wave to the camera and go, ha ha, I was in a movie today.

Susan: 00:08:59

It's a day job.

Susan: 00:09:00

You know, you've gotta fill out paperwork, you get paid it's responsibility.

Susan: 00:09:04

And the area started learning the difference between volunteer background and if you could actually pay them or compensate them a little bit.

Susan: 00:09:12

So I really felt like an advocate to get background paid because you know, the first time you dangle the carrot, Hey, you wanna be in a movie?

Susan: 00:09:19

Uh, that's fine.

Susan: 00:09:21

And you, you get, you get a taste of it, but once there's a little compensation in it for you, you try a little harder.

Susan: 00:09:28

You show up, you don't cancel at the last minute.

Susan: 00:09:31

And when you have volunteers, you really risk that.

Susan: 00:09:34

Um, and so I'm, really passionate about, you know, please just compensate people and make it worth their time.

Susan: 00:09:41

If it's gas money, you know, and this is, at the time background rate was $58 a day.

Susan: 00:09:47

It was so cheap.

Susan: 00:09:49

Now it's over a hundred dollars a day.

Susan: 00:09:52

Um, so, so that just grew.

Susan: 00:09:54

And then I, I wanted to help people find the actors for their speaking roles, not just background.

Jaclyn: 00:09:59

Right.

Susan: 00:10:00

while I was training and upping my craft and leveling up and meeting with coaches, I found a dear friend who was coaching me, and I said, what, could I do to make it worth your while to come to Augusta and teach?

Susan: 00:10:13

A class, how many students do you need and what would you charge?

Susan: 00:10:16

Because we've got these people who are doing background work and they're hungry to learn more.

Susan: 00:10:21

I even created a little workshop called Background and Beyond,

Susan: 00:10:25

and it, I, I charged $5 I think, and I taught people what a day in the life of background was, what to expect.

Susan: 00:10:32

How do you find the casting calls?

Susan: 00:10:34

What kind of schedule do need to adhere to?

Susan: 00:10:36

How do you dress?

Susan: 00:10:38

Uh, what to expect when you walk on set.

Susan: 00:10:40

How long should your day last?

Susan: 00:10:41

What to bring for your creature comforts

Jaclyn: 00:10:44

that's so valuable.

Susan: 00:10:45

So I, I would teach that and then I started teaching.

Susan: 00:10:49

Okay, you wanna level up and go beyond background?

Susan: 00:10:51

So I called it beyond the background

Jaclyn: 00:10:54

Right.

Jaclyn: 00:10:55

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:10:55

how it's such a different mindset when you go from background to actually a speaking role.

Jaclyn: 00:11:00

It's really easy to go walk from point A to point B and look like you're on a mission.

Jaclyn: 00:11:05

It's all different when you have to say a few words and, what was kind of interesting was during all of that, I had booked my first role on a big feature film and I had a trailer, a honey to myself.

Jaclyn: 00:11:21

You know, it was about as big as my dining.

Jaclyn: 00:11:24

Yeah.

Susan: 00:11:24

I realized, whoa, one of the big differences is you're not in holding with a whole bunch of backgrounders eating, you know, cheese, cheese balls, and peanut butter crackers, and drinking a bottled water and chit-chatting and socializing.

Susan: 00:11:37

You're in a trailer by yourself.

Susan: 00:11:39

It is kind of lonely and you feel like they forgot about you.

Susan: 00:11:44

But I didn't have a big script on that particular set.

Susan: 00:11:48

It was a very easy set.

Susan: 00:11:50

But if I had had a lot of lines to learn, I know

Susan: 00:11:53

that's that place, to get that solitude, to get yourself centered, um, do devotion, listen to music, whatever you need to get yourself mentally ready.

Susan: 00:12:02

So, um, it was a huge difference.

Susan: 00:12:04

So I started, training that class.

Susan: 00:12:06

Then I brought my friend Cindy to town and it was hard to muster up like 10 people, but they came,

Susan: 00:12:15

she had offered 15 people for an early class and 15 people for a later class.

Susan: 00:12:20

And I had like three in the first one and four in the second one.

Susan: 00:12:23

And she said, oh, I can't drive all the way from Atlanta Let's combine them.

Susan: 00:12:27

So

Jaclyn: 00:12:28

Yeah.

Susan: 00:12:28

and everyone's eyes was opened like.

Susan: 00:12:31

Is a real acting class.

Susan: 00:12:32

Oh my gosh, And so that started a whole nother thing that I began called Actor Circle.

Jaclyn: 00:12:39

Wow.

Jaclyn: 00:12:40

Okay.

Jaclyn: 00:12:41

So yeah, you've, started a lot of things that have been bringing a lot of value to other people.

Jaclyn: 00:12:46

like that when you know you are pursuing something that is on your heart that you have a passion for, and you're like, who can I bring along?

Jaclyn: 00:12:55

You know, who, who can I add value to on this journey?

Jaclyn: 00:12:58

that they can come with me.

Jaclyn: 00:12:59

Like, you're not just in it for yourself.

Jaclyn: 00:13:01

That's really cool.

Jaclyn: 00:13:02

So for your casting, how long did you do that for?

Jaclyn: 00:13:06

Are you still doing it?

Susan: 00:13:08

Uh, yes and no.

Jaclyn: 00:13:09

Okay.

Susan: 00:13:10

I have, um, put aside background casting.

Susan: 00:13:14

Um, it drained the lifeblood out of me.

Susan: 00:13:16

I'll just like,

Jaclyn: 00:13:17

Oh, okay.

Jaclyn: 00:13:19

Fair warning.

Susan: 00:13:20

it is very stressful and the bigger the numbers got, the scarier it got.

Susan: 00:13:25

And not only was I casting for background, I was also casting for stand-ins,

Jaclyn: 00:13:29

okay.

Susan: 00:13:30

which is another big job.

Susan: 00:13:32

And in my area.

Susan: 00:13:34

know, there's just not a lot of people who have that set experience.

Susan: 00:13:37

Now, I did discover the pocket of people who were also driving to Atlanta doing what I had done.

Susan: 00:13:43

And so they had experience, but it wasn't, if I was looking for a specific stand in, they may or may not have been the right candidate.

Susan: 00:13:52

you know, because the standin needs to be around the height of the actor, around the same hair color, same build.

Susan: 00:13:59

So it never failed.

Susan: 00:14:01

If I needed a male, I had an experienced female,

Susan: 00:14:05

well, I can't do that.

Susan: 00:14:06

Or one skin color.

Susan: 00:14:07

I'm like, I had other skin color.

Susan: 00:14:09

Like, I'm like, I can't, I wish I could use you.

Susan: 00:14:12

Um, one feature film came through a town and it was so great because I was so excited to cast this actor, and I don't, I don't know if I can, say it.

Susan: 00:14:20

I mean, it's long been released but he was Mel Gibson Standin.

Jaclyn: 00:14:24

Oh

Susan: 00:14:24

And I was like, oh, this is, and I can't wait to tell my friend who got to to be Mel Gibson stand-in that it was Mel Gibson.

Jaclyn: 00:14:33

Oh yeah,

Susan: 00:14:34

oh, that's so awesome.

Susan: 00:14:35

That's so awesome.

Susan: 00:14:36

So that was fun when a couple of bigger names came to the area and I needed a stand-in and I kind of had this thing where I would find a place where I could be an extra, as like my little cameo.

Susan: 00:14:48

But you know, that was a very stressful day because I'm over here in work mode.

Susan: 00:14:51

Mama Bear, get everybody signed in and take care of them, and they're like, okay, we're ready for you to, go get ready to be on set.

Susan: 00:14:58

Okay?

Susan: 00:14:58

Now I had to bring all my wardrobe clothes and then change and like look pretty and be nice.

Susan: 00:15:02

And

Susan: 00:15:03

so I was able to get an assistant and get production to pay her as well.

Susan: 00:15:11

that was kind of a miracle because I was offering to just, I had a friend who wanted to just shadow me and see what I did, and after the first week of production, I get a phone call saying, we need to double or triple the amount of backgrounders that you're bringing on set.

Susan: 00:15:26

And I said, well, I'm bringing in as much as the budget is telling me I can.

Susan: 00:15:29

If you say 20 today and you want 60, well then you gotta tell me that we have the budget for that.

Susan: 00:15:36

So that turned into a full-time job for my friend.

Susan: 00:15:38

I was gonna just gonna give her, you know, a couple hundred bucks out of my pay.

Susan: 00:15:42

But then

Susan: 00:15:42

when I started thinking about the taxes, I went, oh, no, no, no, no.

Susan: 00:15:45

So I went to bat with production and I said, Hey, can we get her paid?

Susan: 00:15:50

So they paid her as a pa, a day rate, but assigned to me, which was wonderful.

Susan: 00:15:57

And then another film came to town, same producer.

Susan: 00:16:00

Did the same thing.

Susan: 00:16:01

I said, I need, I need my assistant.

Susan: 00:16:02

They're like, okay, well this is what will pay her.

Susan: 00:16:04

This is what will pay you.

Susan: 00:16:06

So that graduated well in our area.

Susan: 00:16:09

Not only am I the casting director for the background, but I also needed to be on set, checking them all in, babysitting them all day, while also casting for the following day, which became quite stressful in the bigger cities, they have PAs to do that, but here in Augusta, they just don't have the budget for that, and I allowed it the first time.

Susan: 00:16:30

So of course that meant I had

Susan: 00:16:31

to

Susan: 00:16:31

continue that pattern they liked it 'cause they knew I had already seen everybody's pictures.

Susan: 00:16:37

I had already been communicating with them.

Susan: 00:16:38

So I knew who they would be when they showed up.

Susan: 00:16:42

So there was that.

Susan: 00:16:44

Um, but one film just kind of finally broke me and I had to walk away and say, no more background casting.

Susan: 00:16:52

So, um.

Susan: 00:16:55

A long answer to your short question is, I have a rule now.

Susan: 00:16:59

I do enjoy casting for the speaking roles, the day players, the regional hires.

Susan: 00:17:03

I really enjoy watching actors audition tapes.

Susan: 00:17:06

it helps me as an actor as well.

Susan: 00:17:09

So, and since I have taken acting more seriously, because acting was my first love and because I did all this casting, everyone forgot that I was an actor.

Jaclyn: 00:17:19

Right.

Susan: 00:17:20

I would see a project, I'm like, oh, I could have auditioned for that.

Susan: 00:17:23

Or, oh, I wish I had known there was that role or this role.

Susan: 00:17:26

And I said, I need to put casting aside, especially background casting.

Susan: 00:17:31

So my little rule is if there is not a role for me to audition for, then I will happily help cast, but not background.

Susan: 00:17:41

But if there is even a remote possibility, I could audition for a role that would fit my breakdown.

Susan: 00:17:48

I would prefer not to be the casting director for it, because I just feel that would be a conflict of interest.

Jaclyn: 00:17:54

Right.

Jaclyn: 00:17:54

Well that makes sense.

Susan: 00:17:56

So that's my little rule.

Susan: 00:17:57

So yes, I'm still casting, but no, not background.

Jaclyn: 00:18:01

Okay, so for people who are in the South Carolina area now, you know, Susan is available for a hire first as an actor.

Jaclyn: 00:18:09

Second is casting.

Susan: 00:18:11

not just South Carolina.

Susan: 00:18:12

I am so geographically I am Two and a half hours from Atlanta,

Susan: 00:18:17

from Charleston, from Charlotte, North Carolina, from Savannah.

Susan: 00:18:21

And my kids are near Charlotte and Charleston.

Susan: 00:18:23

So of course I'm driving.

Susan: 00:18:25

And the great beauty of casting is most of it is online anyway.

Susan: 00:18:28

It's virtual.

Susan: 00:18:29

So, but I have a lot of family in Texas, so Texas is my heart.

Susan: 00:18:33

so I'm so willing to be there.

Jaclyn: 00:18:37

Yeah, yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:18:38

No doubt.

Jaclyn: 00:18:39

Yeah, like I know it's one of those things where on set, it's like a family, you know?

Jaclyn: 00:18:45

And everybody has the same goal.

Jaclyn: 00:18:47

like everything is, is all moving in the same direction.

Jaclyn: 00:18:50

And when you're with a group of people that have that same, heart and mind and goal, like, it's amazing when you're, you're with your tribe, you know?

Jaclyn: 00:18:57

I guess that's what I'm getting at.

Jaclyn: 00:18:58

And so, I hope you get a lot more projects 'cause I think you're fantastic.

Jaclyn: 00:19:04

All right, so we're gonna talk more in our next episode.

Jaclyn: 00:19:07

Um, I wanna hear some advice that you might have for actors or whoever else you might have advice for.

Jaclyn: 00:19:15

but before we finish out this portion of our interview, do you have any final thoughts or is there any way that you would like people to get in contact with you?

Susan: 00:19:26

Um, final thoughts is, and I think I heard another guest mention this is just.

Susan: 00:19:32

The best thing people can do that are interested in the film industry in any capacity is get to know all, understand the roles, the hierarchy, the roles of everybody, even from background, background to the locations department, to the transpo department, and understand what they do because it is a well-oiled machine.

Susan: 00:19:53

And the best way to get.

Susan: 00:19:55

Your foot in the door is through background, because I've, I've encouraged a lot of people who, they wanna be involved in some way, but they're not sure how.

Susan: 00:20:03

So they might do a free background gig, but they're watching what the other people are doing, and they might see somebody, you know, off to the side doing, so now I wanna do that.

Susan: 00:20:12

How would I do that?

Susan: 00:20:14

And then you just start the conversation and that's, that's the only way to be a fly on the wall.

Susan: 00:20:19

To see how it works and to see what everybody does.

Susan: 00:20:23

And so getting educated and teaching people to understand, especially for actors, you know, understand what the sound department does understand, um, that that guy over there sleeping isn't, he's not,

Susan: 00:20:35

bluffing off his work.

Susan: 00:20:36

He was the transpo driver that brought the talent to set, and so he was up at the crack of dawn.

Susan: 00:20:40

So this is his downtime.

Susan: 00:20:42

So understanding those things.

Susan: 00:20:44

'cause it's easy to judge.

Susan: 00:20:45

Who's that guy sleeping in the corner Oh, he's, he's the van driver.

Susan: 00:20:49

Okay.

Jaclyn: 00:20:49

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:20:49

Yeah,

Susan: 00:20:50

needs him right at this moment.

Jaclyn: 00:20:52

yeah, yeah.

Susan: 00:20:53

So really just understanding that.

Susan: 00:20:55

And as far as getting ahold of me, I have, uh, contact information on my link tree.

Susan: 00:21:00

and then Mama Bear Casting is a website that is sort of under construction at the moment.

Jaclyn: 00:21:05

Okay, well, we'll have those links in the show notes.