Out of the Box, with Mark Stewart Iverson

Geoff: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast, where we talk to and learn from filmmakers with a Christian worldview.

Geoff: 00:00:06

I'm Geoff,

Jaclyn: 00:00:07

And I'm Jaclyn.

Geoff: 00:00:08

and today we're talking with Mark Stewart Iverson.

Jaclyn: 00:00:12

Upon graduating from UCLA Film School, Mark Stewart Iverson co created, co wrote, and co directed Hulu's former number one web series, Dorm Life.

Jaclyn: 00:00:21

The hit comedy show racked up three Webby Awards, two Streamy nominations, and two W3 Gold Awards.

Jaclyn: 00:00:28

After a spiritual transformation, Mark founded MSI Films with the production of his original screenplay, the award winning For Profit, marking his feature directorial debut.

Jaclyn: 00:00:40

Mark currently serves as the creative producer for the sustainability docu series, Rivers Are Life, on the Weather Channel, having produced 16 episodes in 8 countries across 5 continents.

Geoff: 00:00:53

Welcome, Mark.

Mark: 00:00:54

Hey, hey, thanks for having me.

Jaclyn: 00:00:56

So you and I got connected through a film festival, not a Christian film festival, and actually we didn't even get to meet in person at the festival, it was an online kind of meeting, because you had your film for profit.

Jaclyn: 00:01:10

in the festival and I had one of my screenplays in the festival.

Jaclyn: 00:01:14

And so as a festival participant, I got to watch the movies.

Jaclyn: 00:01:19

So I got to see For Profit, which is not yet released at the time of us recording this.

Jaclyn: 00:01:24

And so I got to be one of the first viewers and I'm so excited about that.

Jaclyn: 00:01:28

And I loved it.

Jaclyn: 00:01:29

And I started talking about it on my Facebook, and then I guess that's how you saw that I was excited about your work, and so then we connected.

Jaclyn: 00:01:38

Since then, we've actually, had you be one of our instructors with Family Friendly Screenwriting Academy.

Jaclyn: 00:01:45

You did a boot camp, but before we get into that stuff, let's back up.

Jaclyn: 00:01:51

How did you even get into film?

Jaclyn: 00:01:52

How did you get to the point of For profit?

Mark: 00:01:55

Sure.

Mark: 00:01:56

Yeah.

Mark: 00:01:56

yeah, it was the, Las Vegas International Film Festival.

Mark: 00:02:00

That was great.

Mark: 00:02:01

Yeah.

Mark: 00:02:01

So For profit is my directorial debut.

Mark: 00:02:04

My first big feature film . Yeah, it took a while, took a while to get my first feature off the ground.

Mark: 00:02:09

I'd been working on trying to get my first feature going for almost a decade.

Mark: 00:02:13

I started making movies pretty early on, about 15, 16, 17, late high school.

Mark: 00:02:19

I caught the bug and got really, really into it.

Mark: 00:02:23

I was really blessed in that I had great teachers growing up that were very, enthusiastic and supportive about creativity, about writing, about expressing yourself.

Mark: 00:02:35

Uh, junior high and high school.

Mark: 00:02:37

And then when I got into high school, I started, yeah, to just mess around with writing and poetry and prose.

Mark: 00:02:42

And then I did a, little commercial fun little project for an English class.

Mark: 00:02:48

And we had to shoot something with a little, video camera, and I got really into it.

Mark: 00:02:53

I got really into it.

Mark: 00:02:54

And it, and I got really excited.

Mark: 00:02:55

And certainly, even when I look back, you know, of all the little commercials that everybody did, mine was certainly the highest production value, because I really got into it.

Mark: 00:03:04

And then I started to just express myself with writing in screenplay formats, and started to realize, okay, I can just shoot these things, and I had really funny friends around me, and great people around me, creative people.

Mark: 00:03:15

I had a buddy of mine who was really into photography.

Mark: 00:03:17

So I had him shoot my next project.

Mark: 00:03:19

And then I had another friend of mine who was really funny.

Mark: 00:03:21

I had him act along with me in the project.

Mark: 00:03:23

And I wrote a little, like, rom com, 40 minute movie.

Mark: 00:03:26

And we did that junior year of high school.

Mark: 00:03:28

And then senior year of high school, I did a full two hour Feature.

Mark: 00:03:33

It was technically, I guess, my first feature, but we're not going to talk about that because it was not that great of a production.

Mark: 00:03:38

But it was great.

Mark: 00:03:39

I wrote the whole thing.

Mark: 00:03:40

I edited it all myself.

Mark: 00:03:42

I directed it.

Mark: 00:03:43

It took the whole year on weekends and nights to shoot it, and I finished it.

Mark: 00:03:48

And that was the moment where I convinced everybody, where I actually finished it.

Mark: 00:03:53

I convinced my family.

Mark: 00:03:54

I convinced my friends.

Mark: 00:03:56

It was very difficult to finish because a lot of my friends who had started with the project were not excited about continuing with the project 6, 8 months down the road.

Jaclyn: 00:04:03

They did not have the passion you

Mark: 00:04:05

They did not have the passion.

Mark: 00:04:07

They did not have the vision.

Mark: 00:04:08

But I did.

Mark: 00:04:09

And so I kept with it.

Mark: 00:04:10

I finished.

Mark: 00:04:10

I had a premiere.

Mark: 00:04:11

We made little DVDs.

Mark: 00:04:13

Like, I had a soundtrack.

Mark: 00:04:14

We did it all.

Mark: 00:04:15

And that was the moment where I really convinced everybody.

Mark: 00:04:18

Okay.

Mark: 00:04:18

No, this is, this is my future.

Mark: 00:04:20

During that whole time I, you know, started applying to film schools.

Mark: 00:04:23

I grew up, outside Chicago.

Mark: 00:04:25

And so I, thought about staying around Chicago.

Mark: 00:04:27

I had some friends in some film schools in Chicago and doing film work in Chicago, but I really wanted to go to one of the coasts and New York or LA.

Mark: 00:04:35

And so I applied to a lot of big schools and I got into UCLA.

Mark: 00:04:38

And so I went to UCLA and went out to LA and did that for, four years at school there.

Mark: 00:04:44

And then I did another about five years living around LA and doing the LA thing.

Mark: 00:04:49

And at that point at school, I got into comedy.

Mark: 00:04:54

I was in a sketch group.

Mark: 00:04:55

It was a

Jaclyn: 00:04:56

Oh, fun.

Mark: 00:04:57

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Mark: 00:04:58

It was a lot of fun.

Mark: 00:04:59

And that's, that's where, you know, everything I'd done before that, people were certainly like, oh wow, you, like I said, you had the vision, you actually completed it.

Mark: 00:05:08

You really know how to follow through.

Mark: 00:05:11

But when I started doing the comedy, that's when I started to actually feel like the audience was there for me, because I started to actually get genuine good reactions.

Mark: 00:05:20

We had a big, student comedy troupe that started at UCLA and then we continued after and we did a bunch of work together after for many years, but it was a big student show.

Mark: 00:05:29

This was a 5, 000 people show that we would do every year.

Mark: 00:05:33

Yeah, student show, but you know, obviously alumni were there, teachers, professors.

Mark: 00:05:38

You know, it was a big community event and it was, um, it was like a, uh, talent show for, for musical talent show.

Mark: 00:05:45

But then we were the comedy troupe in between and we did videos and live sketches and, and I was the filmmaker of the team.

Mark: 00:05:52

And so I was shooting, directing, editing.

Mark: 00:05:54

I act in a little bit.

Mark: 00:05:55

But I'd have 5, 000 people to like say, okay, is this good or not?

Mark: 00:05:59

And every year we got better and better and better.

Mark: 00:06:02

And every year we had really, really, really great reactions and people would come up to me after.

Mark: 00:06:07

And, and I like, I started to get people coming up, they wanted to work with me because they're like, that was actually fantastic.

Mark: 00:06:12

It made me laugh out loud.

Mark: 00:06:14

I couldn't believe how good that was.

Mark: 00:06:16

And that's when I started to realize, okay, yeah, no, I think I can do this really, like it's not just that I can complete a project, but I actually think there's an audience there for my work.

Mark: 00:06:24

And yeah,, so I kept the comedy thing going for a long time and after college we did a Web series back when it was called web series when people were still questioning whether or not people would watch things online.

Mark: 00:06:35

But we did two seasons of a web series and that was Pretty successful, you know, successful in those terms, in like 2010, 2011 terms.

Mark: 00:06:44

We had, you know, good viewership.

Mark: 00:06:45

We got onto Hulu before Hulu became Big Hulu.

Mark: 00:06:49

But it was, we were like their number one show for many years, it was a college show.

Mark: 00:06:53

It was about living in a dorm , mockumentary on a dorm floor.

Mark: 00:06:56

So we got a good, Yeah, we really, it really was great.

Mark: 00:06:59

It was where I really learned how to work with actors.

Mark: 00:07:02

It was kinda my grad school.

Mark: 00:07:03

I kind of say.

Mark: 00:07:04

I dpd the first season, so I, did everything.

Mark: 00:07:06

Directed, was one of the writers.

Mark: 00:07:08

I acted in a couple episodes.

Mark: 00:07:10

Unfortunately, I thought it was going to be the project that led into my career, but it kind of fell apart, and the group kind of broke up, and the producers who funded the project were, um, they fell out of love with it, they didn't make enough money with it.

Mark: 00:07:25

And then they tried to get a third season going, they couldn't really make it into regular television, and so it kind of petered out over years, and that was when I was like, okay, you know what?

Mark: 00:07:34

I need to start my own company.

Mark: 00:07:35

I need to do my own thing.

Mark: 00:07:36

I need to, not, just be reliant on other producers, even a group of, of other creatives.

Mark: 00:07:41

I need to write my own work.

Mark: 00:07:43

So that was when I started like, all right, I need to make a feature film.

Mark: 00:07:47

yeah, it took, it took me a long time.

Mark: 00:07:49

I wrote a bunch of scripts, actually, that I tried to get off the ground.

Mark: 00:07:52

I wrote, uh, kind of my own version of a little bit of a horror thing that everyone hated the script.

Mark: 00:07:58

Um, I wrote a, a sports dramedy that, people liked the script and that was good to go, but I could only raise half the money and I didn't want to, I didn't want to do it, not properly.

Mark: 00:08:08

And then I had another movie that I was working on with another writing team and that creatively we kind of fell apart on.

Mark: 00:08:16

And so that I had enough money for, but creatively it didn't work out.

Mark: 00:08:20

And then I wrote another script that, I, Just really couldn't get people behind.

Mark: 00:08:24

So I wrote four or five scripts trying to get something going.

Mark: 00:08:28

And then finally, um, and I really felt in prayer, you know, I spent so many years trying to get all these other projects going.

Mark: 00:08:34

Then finally I had this idea for, For profit.

Mark: 00:08:37

Profit like Moses.

Mark: 00:08:38

For profit.

Mark: 00:08:39

You know, it's a play on words.

Mark: 00:08:40

Um, and it was something that just kind of came into my heart, and I wrote the script and people really responded to it.

Mark: 00:08:46

And then I started raising money for it.

Mark: 00:08:47

And it, it all came together.

Mark: 00:08:49

You know, it was one of those things where just felt like God was like, All right, you want to make a feature film?

Mark: 00:08:53

This is the one.

Mark: 00:08:54

And, um, it took many

Jaclyn: 00:08:55

Well, and

Mark: 00:08:56

years but finally got it going.

Mark: 00:08:57

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:08:58

With those other scripts that you wrote leading up to that one, they were probably a really great learning opportunity, growing opportunity, you know, because every time you write a script, you learn something and then you apply that to your next script.

Jaclyn: 00:09:11

So your first script and your fifth script are not going to look the same, you know, even just from a writing perspective.

Jaclyn: 00:09:19

And they might all be great, but you learn so much each time you write, right?

Jaclyn: 00:09:23

And then you apply that, and so you're accumulating your skills as you're writing.

Jaclyn: 00:09:28

Congratulations with, getting the funding and getting the production done and the awards that you're winning.

Jaclyn: 00:09:33

Do you even know how many awards you've won, or have you lost count by now?

Mark: 00:09:37

I had to count it up for the distributor.

Mark: 00:09:39

So we did lock in a distribution, deal, which was great.

Mark: 00:09:42

And we're putting the movie out in a couple of months.

Mark: 00:09:44

We haven't set an exact date yet.

Mark: 00:09:45

We did the festivals for a little over a year, I think we were official selections for like 15 or 16 festivals, and then we won, I know it was over 20 awards technically, and a bunch of other nominations as well.

Mark: 00:09:59

And some of those are smaller, boutique festivals, and some of them, are much larger.

Mark: 00:10:03

Some of them are faith centric, some of them are not, like the Las Vegas one, we won the faith category, but it wasn't a faith centric festival.

Mark: 00:10:13

And it also, what was great about that, one of my actresses, the woman who played the angel, who's fantastic in the film is Valentina Garcia.

Mark: 00:10:21

She's a lead in the film, but she won the best supporting actor across all genres for that festival.

Mark: 00:10:26

Um, so that was, yeah, for the Las Vegas one.

Mark: 00:10:29

Yeah, that, that was really good.

Mark: 00:10:30

That was one of those times where I was like, okay, yeah, this is working as a film, not just in the genre of faith.

Mark: 00:10:35

There was another like the, Canadian International Comedy Festival, not faith at all.

Mark: 00:10:40

We got into that.

Mark: 00:10:41

We didn't win any awards, but we got into it, which was like, Oh, okay.

Mark: 00:10:44

Great.

Mark: 00:10:45

The comedy's really working besides the genre elements.

Mark: 00:10:48

So yeah, the festival route was great.

Mark: 00:10:50

we, not only connecting with other great filmmakers and other writers and getting good feedback, but it really showcased that, yeah, the film was working, and it was something that, there's going to be an audience for it.

Mark: 00:11:01

And so it was really, exciting.

Mark: 00:11:03

Yeah,

Jaclyn: 00:11:03

Festivals are really good for that.

Jaclyn: 00:11:04

Festivals can be a great place to kind of test and see where things are at.

Jaclyn: 00:11:08

You know, it's interesting when I think about like the Las Vegas festival, being a secular festival and they have a faith category.

Jaclyn: 00:11:15

I mean, they don't specify which faith it could have been any faith, right?

Mark: 00:11:19

Yeah,

Jaclyn: 00:11:20

it didn't specify, you know, Christian.

Jaclyn: 00:11:22

And so, yeah, it could have been up against people that have, Sikh projects or, Hindu or, Islam.

Jaclyn: 00:11:29

Like, I mean, you, pick whichever, faith or religion it would have been all in that category.

Jaclyn: 00:11:35

Um, what I love, I'm so glad that your actress won so many awards for her role, because the movie would not have been the same without her.

Jaclyn: 00:11:43

Man, she nailed it.

Jaclyn: 00:11:45

It was so good!

Mark: 00:11:46

Thanks.

Mark: 00:11:47

Yes.

Mark: 00:11:47

She's great.

Mark: 00:11:48

She did.

Mark: 00:11:49

She did.

Mark: 00:11:49

Yes.

Geoff: 00:11:51

I'm looking forward to listeners getting a chance to see this, because we have, and we've already said we loved it, but one of the things...

Geoff: 00:11:59

well, two things: First of all, I believe you said this is your first feature..

Geoff: 00:12:03

But it doesn't look like a first feature.

Jaclyn: 00:12:05

No, it does not look like...

Geoff: 00:12:06

So, while Jaclyn mentioned, you know, having written several scripts, brings you to that point where, it doesn't look like your first script because it's not.

Geoff: 00:12:14

The same is true with your directing and producing, obviously, because this is not a, a first attempt looking movie.

Geoff: 00:12:22

And the second thing I'll say, is it is out of the box.

Geoff: 00:12:26

The concept, the way it's filmed, without giving away any more, that's important.

Geoff: 00:12:32

It's not just a retake on, something we've seen before.

Geoff: 00:12:36

It's very uniquely portrayed and you pull it off very well.

Mark: 00:12:40

Thank you.

Mark: 00:12:41

Thank you.

Mark: 00:12:41

Yeah, it's, you know...

Mark: 00:12:42

A guy gets tasked by an angel to save his hometown.

Mark: 00:12:45

He's got, the, it's a wonderful life elements there, um, the spiritual realm elements, and then there's a demon character that's been latched onto him as well.

Mark: 00:12:52

So there's definitely, there's some high concepts going on there, and there's definitely...

Mark: 00:12:56

yeah, out of the box.

Mark: 00:12:57

That's a great way of explaining it.

Mark: 00:12:59

It is something, especially in the faith world, I think, a lot of the, the films in that genre tend to be a little cookie cutter, a little A plus B equals C, kind of formulaic.

Mark: 00:13:09

We've seen, you know, that kind of story before.

Mark: 00:13:12

Guy gets tasked by an Angel, you know, that kind of storyline.

Mark: 00:13:14

But, um, but yeah, we try to take a unique,

Geoff: 00:13:17

It's not the same.

Mark: 00:13:18

Thank you.

Mark: 00:13:18

Yeah, we try to take a unique take on it.

Mark: 00:13:20

And that's actually, ironically, that's something that...

Mark: 00:13:22

we had problems with some of the distributors at first.

Mark: 00:13:25

Because, everybody would say yeah, this is high production value, this is good, the story's working, the angel's fantastic, you know, great film.

Mark: 00:13:33

Uh, we don't know, this isn't in, this isn't inside the box, this isn't, and we need to have it inside.

Mark: 00:13:39

A lot of distributors are like, but there's this box, and it needs to be in this box, and it's not in this box, what are we supposed to do it?

Jaclyn: 00:13:45

Distributors like to do what they know already works, they're not interested in trying something new, they want what already works, that they have proven track record.

Jaclyn: 00:13:53

This will sell.

Jaclyn: 00:13:54

They're not interested in trying something new to be like, well, let's give it a shot, like,

Mark: 00:14:00

yeah, yeah, not typically, and

Geoff: 00:14:02

Sometimes when there's bigger risk, there's bigger reward.

Geoff: 00:14:04

Those are the ones that stand out in the end.

Mark: 00:14:06

Yeah, that's always been my pitch, um, but it's also, I think, one of the things that I learned with, this process is that distributors are gonna go where the audience goes, so if the audience...

Mark: 00:14:15

If people are responding to your film, then that's the most important thing.

Mark: 00:14:20

You know, the only reason why distributors...

Mark: 00:14:22

distributors are going to respond to where the audience goes.

Mark: 00:14:24

So they don't even have real opinions.

Mark: 00:14:26

Their job is not even have opinions.

Mark: 00:14:28

Their job is to be like, okay, this has worked before.

Mark: 00:14:30

This is like that.

Mark: 00:14:31

Okay, great.

Mark: 00:14:32

Yes we'll, we'll buy that movie.

Mark: 00:14:33

They're just waiting to hear what opinions are coming in.

Mark: 00:14:36

And so...

Mark: 00:14:37

and that's what happened with the festival route for us was like, okay, yeah.

Mark: 00:14:39

Because we've gone to a few.

Mark: 00:14:41

distributors before we did festivals.

Mark: 00:14:43

We had a couple of connections, we had a couple of meetings and just kind of seeing what the vibe was and the vibe was definitely like, this is a great movie.

Mark: 00:14:51

We're...

Mark: 00:14:51

it's not in the box.

Mark: 00:14:53

It's a little outside the box.

Mark: 00:14:54

We're not sure.

Mark: 00:14:55

And so we went to the festivals, and we're starting to get in.

Mark: 00:14:57

We got into a ton of them.

Mark: 00:14:58

We won all these awards.

Mark: 00:14:59

People are really responding to the story, to the characters, to the performances.

Mark: 00:15:03

I'm like, oh, okay, yeah.

Mark: 00:15:04

No, no, there's going to be an audience for this.

Mark: 00:15:06

Especially, I think, like you said, in the faith genre.

Mark: 00:15:08

I think, that genre is so It is really new.

Mark: 00:15:11

It really is.

Mark: 00:15:12

Like, it's still finding its feet, it's still trying to expand and try different things, and there are some that are a little more cookie cutter, a little more like, okay, this is how a faith movie goes.

Mark: 00:15:20

But then there's also newer stuff breaking out all the time that is like, oh, wow, I didn't think that was going to do very well.

Mark: 00:15:26

Or that maybe is lighter on the faith, but more like a regular movie.

Mark: 00:15:30

Something even like Sound of Freedom, where it's actually kind of light on the faith elements.

Mark: 00:15:34

The main character is a person of faith, and there's a few discussions of some scripture, but the main thing that to with that was, the heartfelt nature of the subject matter and that the values and trying to help people and trying to help, you know, enslaved people, Children.

Mark: 00:15:50

And so, you know with my film, we're trying to do something in the sense of like trying to do a little something different and try to expand the genre a little bit and try to, keep the storytelling high and the, production value high and really making it a great film.

Mark: 00:16:04

Still working within the faith genre and yet being something that, has something unique to it.

Mark: 00:16:10

Has a little twist.

Mark: 00:16:10

Has something that, makes it its own thing.

Mark: 00:16:14

You guys, you know, you guys responding to the film has always been really, really great for me.

Mark: 00:16:18

I love that you guys love it.

Jaclyn: 00:16:19

oh, awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:16:21

I think that one of the things that, you know, this whole box thing of Christian film...

Jaclyn: 00:16:26

It's as if, the stories were all about coming to salvation.

Jaclyn: 00:16:30

And so, I think that where the out of the box, if you want to call it that, kind of ideas come is where, well, what if the story isn't about coming to salvation?

Jaclyn: 00:16:39

What if it's something else?

Jaclyn: 00:16:40

And so, for The Sound of Freedom, it wasn't about coming to salvation.

Jaclyn: 00:16:43

It was just pursuing something that was already on God's heart.

Jaclyn: 00:16:46

And so, when we have stories to tell that...

Jaclyn: 00:16:50

let's say marriage restoration or something like that.

Jaclyn: 00:16:53

The characters themselves could be characters who believe in God and therefore there's a faith element brought in, but the story of reconciliation or restoration, like that is something that's on God's heart.

Jaclyn: 00:17:04

So we don't have to necessarily get into the salvation message because it's kind of already baked in there.

Jaclyn: 00:17:13

You know, like, this is, we're doing life with God.

Jaclyn: 00:17:15

And I think that this is kind of where, the faith based industry is headed, is realizing that there's more to our faith than salvation.

Jaclyn: 00:17:25

Even though it's an important part, there's still so much more that we could, tap into to share the heart of God.

Mark: 00:17:31

Yeah.

Mark: 00:17:32

Yeah.

Mark: 00:17:32

Jaclyn, you're absolutely right.

Mark: 00:17:34

I've heard that same thing recently from a lot of producers and a lot of distributors in the faith world.

Mark: 00:17:39

Where they're like, yes, there is the classic man, woman coming to Jesus storyline in the faith world.

Mark: 00:17:46

But there's also just the story that hits the right values...

Mark: 00:17:49

That God is just a part of the world, and it's not necessarily this person has the actual come to Jesus moment, but it's more that the values and the morals and the world that is being portrayed is just working with a faith centric person, and trying to tell those stories, too, of just like, this is a story that is universal, and spiritual, and moral, and has great values, but it's not necessarily...

Mark: 00:18:17

you don't have the actual maybe scene where the person says, yes, now I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

Mark: 00:18:22

I think the expanding of the genre is great, where it's just like, Oh, this is just hitting somebody in their heart for a faith person, but it's not the exact story we've seen before.

Mark: 00:18:31

And I'm excited about the expansion of the genre.

Jaclyn: 00:18:34

Definitely.

Jaclyn: 00:18:34

I have a lot of my scripts that fit into that category, where the character already has come to Jesus and now it's it's about walking out their faith.

Jaclyn: 00:18:43

And I think that that's important and it really does come down to who's your audience.

Jaclyn: 00:18:48

Who are you writing this for?

Jaclyn: 00:18:50

Because if you're writing it for people who are already saved, we don't need to try to sell that message.

Jaclyn: 00:18:56

They've already got it.

Geoff: 00:18:57

I think, a big part of it is having the movie tell a story, not preach a sermon.

Geoff: 00:19:02

I believe if the story is good, if it's story, if it's story centric, the message will be received.

Geoff: 00:19:10

Not that we're not telling stories with a message.

Geoff: 00:19:13

But we've got to remember the story has to support itself.

Geoff: 00:19:17

It has to be a well told story in order for the message to be heard.

Mark: 00:19:20

Yeah, 100%.

Mark: 00:19:21

When I would go to these festivals and do Q& As, the thing that I started to say that really resonated with people was, I think a lot of, filmmakers in this genre, at least early on, you know, maybe 10, 15 years ago especially, would say they're a evangelical filmmaker, or they're making evangelical films.

Mark: 00:19:38

And if you're doing that, if you're evangelizing, to evangelize, it is to preach to those who do not know God, who do not know the gospel.

Mark: 00:19:47

And in order to do that, you need to actually preach to them.

Mark: 00:19:51

But a lot of the films that are called evangelical, are not made for people who don't already know the gospel, they're actually made for people who already do know the gospel.

Mark: 00:20:01

And they don't work many times because, uh, like what you're saying, Jeff, the story isn't working.

Mark: 00:20:06

The themes are working.

Mark: 00:20:07

The preaching works, but you're preaching to the choir.

Mark: 00:20:11

And I think.

Mark: 00:20:12

You need to actually go outside the box.

Mark: 00:20:14

You need to go outside the choir.

Mark: 00:20:16

You need to turn around and talk to the congregation.

Mark: 00:20:18

And be like, Okay, yeah, I need to tell a great story that has great values and great morals and works in the characters, and works in the production value too.

Mark: 00:20:28

And I think that's where we can really, expand the genre and realize, okay, yeah, we can make movies that are great, that reach people outside of the bubble.

Mark: 00:20:38

And I think that's a major goal for me.

Mark: 00:20:40

Absolutely.

Mark: 00:20:41

In my filmmaking.

Jaclyn: 00:20:43

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:20:43

I think also, when we show stories where a person is walking out their faith, I think that is as much of a message because then somebody who is maybe not a follower, they can get into the story because it's the character who, you know, it just happens that the character is somebody who believes in God.

Jaclyn: 00:21:01

So, you know, they can watch that story and enjoy it.

Jaclyn: 00:21:04

But then they also get to see what does it actually look like?

Jaclyn: 00:21:07

To follow God, to walk with God?

Jaclyn: 00:21:09

And I think that that can, create some stirring and some questions.

Jaclyn: 00:21:13

That, would have its own value, and not to be discounted, because, I mean, think about how many times you watch a movie where the person, the main character or any of the characters even in the, the story, they don't have the same lifestyle you do, they don't have the same beliefs that you do, and maybe they have like a job that's completely different than what you would do with your life, but you can enjoy it because the characters are interesting, the story is good, and so you're on board with watching and being entertained.

Jaclyn: 00:21:41

And I think that we can do the same for people who aren't of faith, but we can include faith in our stories through our characters, and just bring that reality of walking out our faith into the stories, so that people can see that's what it looks like.

Jaclyn: 00:21:56

So that, you know, people that don't have God to lean on during hard times can see what it looks like when you do.

Jaclyn: 00:22:03

And, and learning how to have that struggle and, and humbling yourself through a learning process, you know, all of that is stuff that, people can see that's how it works and then that could touch their heart.

Mark: 00:22:14

Totally.

Mark: 00:22:14

Let's do it.

Mark: 00:22:15

Let's do it.

Mark: 00:22:16

Absolutely.

Mark: 00:22:16

You write a great script.

Mark: 00:22:17

I'll direct it.

Mark: 00:22:18

Boom.

Mark: 00:22:19

Let's make it happen

Jaclyn: 00:22:20

I'm in.

Jaclyn: 00:22:21

We'll do it.

Jaclyn: 00:22:22

Okay, so I want to talk to you more about certain things that make a script great.

Jaclyn: 00:22:27

And so in our members only portion, we're going to get into some more things on screenwriting itself.

Jaclyn: 00:22:33

And we'll hear more about your upcoming movie that you are working on.

Jaclyn: 00:22:37

So, before we close out this portion of the interview, I just want to ask, do you have any final thoughts for our listeners?

Mark: 00:22:45

Um, yeah, just, uh, we'll keep the word out as far as, for profit when it's coming out.

Mark: 00:22:50

I'm really excited obviously about putting my first feature out.

Mark: 00:22:53

I'm really, humbled and blessed to be here talking to you guys.

Mark: 00:22:57

I'm so glad you guys have responded to my work And it's been really wonderful working with you guys now in the podcast and in the workshops and classes and in the festival.

Mark: 00:23:07

And you guys are doing great work, and I'm just I am really just excited about the future of faith storytelling and storytellers in faith, and I'm really excited about where the genre's going and, and what we can do within it.

Mark: 00:23:18

And I think, people like you guys, as well as me, I think I think we're on the right track as far as really trying to be story centric and character centric and making sure that we're telling great stories with great production value.

Mark: 00:23:30

And it's working, in a spiritual sense too.

Mark: 00:23:33

I'm really excited about next steps, and where my career is going and where everybody is, going.

Geoff: 00:23:38

We're really pleased to have you as part of our network.

Geoff: 00:23:41

And, uh, part of our world.

Geoff: 00:23:43

It has been mentioned that he has and is teaching classes for us.

Geoff: 00:23:48

Classes related to adding comedy to your scripts.

Geoff: 00:23:51

And as Jaclyn said, we're going to talk about that a little more in the second half.

Geoff: 00:23:55

But it's, very important, not just for over the top comedy type movies, but, uh, adding levity to any script.

Mark: 00:24:02

yes, absolutely.

Jaclyn: 00:24:04

You have a fan page where somebody can go to follow your projects like For Profit?

Mark: 00:24:09

Yeah, we have the pages for, For Profit, F O R P R O P H E T, For Profit, profit like Moses, forprofitfilm.

Mark: 00:24:20

com, as well as, on Facebook and Instagram with, For Profit, Instagram for profit film.

Mark: 00:24:26

Yeah, please check that out.

Mark: 00:24:26

We're going to be expanding more posts and socials and trailers and clips and teasers, all that, very soon.

Mark: 00:24:33

And then my company is MSI films, my website, msi films.com and then you can look me up on, Facebook and Instagram as well with MSI Films.

Jaclyn: 00:24:44

Perfect.

Jaclyn: 00:24:45

We'll have those links in our show notes.

Jaclyn: 00:24:47

Thank you so much for this portion of the interview.

Jaclyn: 00:24:49

I look forward to talking with you further in the next portion.

Mark: 00:24:53

Thank you guys.