The Evolution of Christian Media with Bill Curtis

Geoff: 00:00:00

Hey, welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast.

Geoff: 00:00:02

I'm Geoff.

Geoff: 00:00:03

And I'm Jacqueline.

Geoff: 00:00:04

And we're glad to be with you again today.

Geoff: 00:00:06

We have Bill Curtis with us.

Geoff: 00:00:09

Bill is president of Christian history Institute, which owns vision, video and redeem TV.

Geoff: 00:00:15

He has worked in the Christian media field since 1990 and has executive produced dozens of programs, including until forever vindication and torch later series.

Geoff: 00:00:26

Welcome, Bill.

Geoff: 00:00:26

It's good to have you.

Bill: 00:00:27

Pleasure to be here.

Bill: 00:00:28

Thank you.

Geoff: 00:00:29

We shared, um, well I shouldn't say shared, but we were next door to each other for five days or so at the Christian Worldview Film Festival, so it was kind of nice to meet you at that point.

Bill: 00:00:39

Yeah, it was great to meet you and Jaclyn as well.

Geoff: 00:00:41

our first knowledge of your work and what you do would be related to Redeem TV, but there's a history there that goes back a ways.

Geoff: 00:00:50

Tell us about that.

Bill: 00:00:51

Yeah, because back into the early 70s, my dad got involved with making the film La Crosse on a switchblade.

Geoff: 00:00:58

I remember that.

Bill: 00:00:59

In seminary, he worked with gangs in inner city Boston.

Bill: 00:01:04

So when he heard about David Wilkerson's ministry in New York City, he was very, very interested.

Bill: 00:01:08

And, that was a long the short story is at the end of the day, uh, the film was successful, because of dad's involvement in helping to raise the funds.

Bill: 00:01:18

he ended up being in charge of the distribution, after a long, tumultuous process.

Bill: 00:01:23

So that started Gateway Films.

Bill: 00:01:25

Which then distributed 16 millimeter films to churches.

Bill: 00:01:29

And then in the early eighties, when VHS came out, he started Vision Video to distribute the programs we, distributed on 16 millimeter on VHS.

Bill: 00:01:38

we started a mail order catalog, um, which we still have today.

Bill: 00:01:42

And then kind of rolled into DVDs as VHS has faded.

Bill: 00:01:45

And then in 2020, you know, felt the call to start RedeemTV as you know, DVDs are fading out.

Geoff: 00:01:53

Right, so you saw the vision that Blockbuster didn't.

Bill: 00:01:55

The Lord led us and preserved us.

Bill: 00:01:58

Uh, it was a long time coming.

Bill: 00:02:01

We had started an SVOD development.

Bill: 00:02:04

process many years ago, and after being behind schedule and over budget, you know, I put a pause on it, glad we did because they're app driven now and the apps that they're constantly needing to be developed.

Bill: 00:02:16

So in 2019, I donated Vision Video to Christian History Institute, which opened the door a few months later for us to start Redeem TV as a donor supported service.

Bill: 00:02:29

I could not ever make the math work number wise.

Bill: 00:02:32

Starting a streaming service.

Bill: 00:02:35

But the donor model worked because the economics of it were different.

Bill: 00:02:38

So we started that, uh, actually launched in March of 2020, right in the middle of the pandemic, and have not looked back.

Geoff: 00:02:47

uh, actually in March 2020, right?

Bill: 00:02:54

It's easy.

Bill: 00:02:54

It's one, two, three.

Bill: 00:02:55

Put your email in, create a password and you can start watching.

Bill: 00:02:59

And 98 percent of the programming is available at that point.

Bill: 00:03:03

There is.

Bill: 00:03:04

Some of it that, is a member's section that has additional donor content, that's newly released, where a donation is required.

Bill: 00:03:12

Um, but the vast majority of it is available to anyone who signs up.

Bill: 00:03:17

We have no ads.

Bill: 00:03:18

We are starting a fast channel that will have ads, the subscription model will continue on without ads,

Geoff: 00:03:25

hmm.

Geoff: 00:03:25

Uh huh.

Geoff: 00:03:26

Cool,

Bill: 00:03:26

the on demand part of it.

Geoff: 00:03:28

right.

Geoff: 00:03:29

what kinds of projects are you looking for when considering distributing through redeem TV?

Bill: 00:03:37

scope.

Bill: 00:03:38

If we're looking for distribution through Vision Video, which would be a much more wider, comprehensive distribution, including RedeemTV, possibly DVD, but then also selling it to other streaming platforms and television, that's a more, a little bit more of a narrowed scope.

Bill: 00:03:53

But for RedeemTV, we're looking for things that are well produced, that have a Christian worldview.

Bill: 00:03:58

Hopefully to help people grow in their faith that are edifying and building up, provide light, and share the good news of Jesus.

Bill: 00:04:06

we're looking for a broad range of programming.

Bill: 00:04:09

People love dramas.

Bill: 00:04:10

So we're always looking for dramas.

Bill: 00:04:12

We tend to have the sweet spot for documentaries.

Bill: 00:04:15

So we have a lot of documentaries.

Geoff: 00:04:17

probably our entry into RedeemTV was Vindication.

Geoff: 00:04:21

That's how we got started.

Geoff: 00:04:22

We really, really appreciate that show.

Geoff: 00:04:24

And so, thank you for your involvement in continuing to help make that happen.

Bill: 00:04:28

Yeah, that's an interesting story.

Bill: 00:04:30

Gerardo Flaherty, we had met at a film festival, and he had just produced the one first episode in season one, just kind of as a little church mini project, and he was going to give it away on YouTube.

Bill: 00:04:43

And we looked at it and said, I think we can sell this.

Bill: 00:04:46

So we put that out and it did pretty well.

Bill: 00:04:49

And we said, you know, this could be a series.

Bill: 00:04:52

we couldn't sell the series.

Bill: 00:04:54

So it was just kind of really a faith journey where, We said, well, let's do a second one and then we'll be able to sell it.

Bill: 00:04:59

And we did the second one and again, couldn't sell it.

Bill: 00:05:02

And I just felt God saying, keep pressing on.

Bill: 00:05:06

Even though this doesn't make sense right now.

Bill: 00:05:08

So we worked it out to produce a third and a fourth one.

Bill: 00:05:12

And people are doing this on their vacations.

Bill: 00:05:15

It's on a shoestring budget.

Bill: 00:05:17

And again, we couldn't sell it.

Bill: 00:05:18

And again, I felt like God saying, keep pressing on, you know, do more.

Geoff: 00:05:24

going.

Bill: 00:05:24

And that happened for five and six.

Bill: 00:05:26

And we ended up with ten episodes.

Bill: 00:05:29

And at the tenth episode,

Bill: 00:05:31

That's when it started to sell.

Geoff: 00:05:32

sell,

Bill: 00:05:33

and then when COVID hit, and it exploded on one streaming service platform, which led them to want to discuss doing season two, which led to season three, and season four is now in post production.

Geoff: 00:05:45

we've been anticipating that.

Geoff: 00:05:47

So we're looking

Geoff: 00:05:47

forward to it very much.

Geoff: 00:05:49

just to go back for a second.

Geoff: 00:05:51

Vision, at a glance, online, is a place to buy DVDs, but it's much more than that.

Geoff: 00:05:58

more of a, full service distributor, tell us more about how that works.

Bill: 00:06:02

Yeah, that's actually the vast majority of what we do, and there'll be a new website that's just about to release.

Bill: 00:06:08

It gives more detail on it.

Bill: 00:06:10

Um, but yeah, we've been doing this for 40 some odd years.

Bill: 00:06:13

So we have lots of friends all over the world.

Bill: 00:06:16

and there's lots of television stations that, we sell to.

Bill: 00:06:19

There's VOD platforms worldwide.

Bill: 00:06:21

We're working with a lot of, you know, majority of the VOD platforms, Christian and a good number of the secular platforms in the United States, placing the programming.

Bill: 00:06:30

Um, we have a YouTube channel, which has like a million three subscribers.

Bill: 00:06:36

So yeah, that's the biggest part of what we do.

Bill: 00:06:39

We also publish Christian History Magazine and have since 1983 or 4.

Bill: 00:06:45

So that's a separate division.

Geoff: 00:06:47

Cool.

Geoff: 00:06:47

And so that's under Christian History Institute.

Geoff: 00:06:50

Did I say that correctly?

Bill: 00:06:52

You did.

Geoff: 00:06:52

Okay.

Geoff: 00:06:53

good.

Bill: 00:06:55

or 8 times bigger than Christian History.

Bill: 00:06:58

When it was donated to it.

Bill: 00:06:59

So it was a little bit strange, but it put everything under a nonprofit umbrella, which just has worked really, really well for us, for financing films and, saving on postage and just a whole lot of, it just simplified and streamlined a lot of stuff.

Geoff: 00:07:13

Bill, what trends have you seen in Christian filmmaking over the years?

Geoff: 00:07:18

Have been changes in, in your eyes?

Bill: 00:07:21

Uh, yeah, good question.

Bill: 00:07:23

Certainly the quality of Christian films, I think, has steadily risen.

Bill: 00:07:28

there's a lot more filmmakers, with technology changes and the price drop in equipment, it just opened the door for lots and lots of more filmmakers, to make films.

Bill: 00:07:41

There's been a lot more movies getting into the theater,

Geoff: 00:07:44

That's

Bill: 00:07:44

and that seems to be happening, and Fathom's caught onto that.

Bill: 00:07:48

And, you know, regularly, every month it seems like there's a couple different, inspirational faith based films in the theaters where, you know, 20 years ago, it'd be very, very difficult for a faith based film to be in the theaters, where now it, bar to entry is a lot lower.

Geoff: 00:08:03

And I guess they're proving that there's a market for it.

Geoff: 00:08:06

So, uh, it's probably going to continue.

Bill: 00:08:08

God willing.

Bill: 00:08:09

When you say the bar is lower.

Bill: 00:08:11

What are you referring to?

Bill: 00:08:15

Years ago, you could four wall a theater where you could have, one theater in one town, but to do a nationwide release, took millions of dollars in promotion, or just some act of God, or working with a huge studio, which was very, very rare.

Bill: 00:08:30

Now, for low six digits, particularly if you're connected with a large organization, that'll help promote, Fathom will take on projects and they'll help with the promotion and it's kind of a network in place, like a pipeline that's already built and they can put it in, you know, four or 500 or more theaters.

Bill: 00:08:49

on a couple night basis, which just opens the door for many more opportunities

Bill: 00:08:53

Okay, so the requirements have changed.

Bill: 00:08:56

instead of having, you know, a national, release in, 1500 or 2000 theaters.

Bill: 00:09:02

It can be small number of theaters and it can be a smaller period of

Jaclyn: 00:09:06

So it's more accessible?

Jaclyn: 00:09:08

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:09:08

it's similar to what you were saying a few minutes ago about, filmmakers.

Geoff: 00:09:12

the whole filmmaking process is more accessible because of the price of equipment and so on.

Geoff: 00:09:17

I guess it's really a good time with regards to, like you say, improving quality, improving distribution opportunities, improving theatrical release opportunities, largely based on the economics.

Bill: 00:09:29

Yeah.

Bill: 00:09:30

I think it, it opens the door for creativity and people that are very, very creative.

Bill: 00:09:34

And as you know, so well, Jaclyn, gifted script writers and storytellers.

Bill: 00:09:39

It's much easier for them to get their dream made into a film.

Bill: 00:09:44

Where before, you know, in the 16 millimeter days, everything was just so expensive.

Bill: 00:09:48

Hmm.

Bill: 00:09:49

I have a question actually.

Bill: 00:09:51

Like, you know how filmmaking is very much a collaborative effort, right?

Bill: 00:09:56

And there's all the different pieces that are coming together in order to make it work.

Bill: 00:10:00

I'm just curious, because I'm guessing that you've seen a lot of content and.

Bill: 00:10:06

My question is, is there a piece of the puzzle that would prevent a project from moving forward into distribution, uh, or could potentially create the difficulty for that?

Bill: 00:10:16

Like, is there one piece that is more common than an other one that could actually cause that.

Bill: 00:10:22

that struggle.

Bill: 00:10:24

Well, what we see often is a lot of times people have, know, three or four parts of the puzzle right.

Bill: 00:10:31

They may have good directing and the acting isn't good, or they may have good directing and good acting, and the camera work isn't good, or there may be, they may get a lot of the technical things right, where the acting's quite competent, the directing's good, the lighting's good, the camera work's good, but the

Geoff: 00:10:45

as I recently heard,

Bill: 00:10:46

Um, and as I recently heard said recently, uh, good storytelling will overcome, not great production quality, but great production quality will not overcome a poor story.

Bill: 00:10:57

Yeah.

Bill: 00:10:58

Yeah, I agree.

Bill: 00:10:59

I've seen some of that.

Geoff: 00:11:00

With regards to DVD sales, you had a progression from VHS, through the years and, uh, obviously kept up with the times.

Geoff: 00:11:09

How much physical product is being sold today?

Bill: 00:11:12

Well, um, a lot less than was, uh, 10 years ago and a lot less than it was five years ago.

Bill: 00:11:18

And probably from our perspective, less than a year ago.

Geoff: 00:11:21

So it's declining rapidly.

Bill: 00:11:23

yeah, we have a direct mail order catalog.

Bill: 00:11:26

So I would say 10 years ago, two thirds of our sale was wholesale

Bill: 00:11:30

and a third was direct to consumer.

Bill: 00:11:33

Now it's, it's, it's shifted around.

Bill: 00:11:34

There's very little wholesale left.

Bill: 00:11:37

than 25 percent of probably what we do in the vast majority of what we do is, direct to consumer.

Bill: 00:11:43

But it's an older audience.

Bill: 00:11:45

They're not an internet engaged audience.

Bill: 00:11:47

And, you know, they're, it's not a growing audience and, they're getting called home.

Bill: 00:11:51

So it's, it's a declining audience.

Bill: 00:11:54

So we'll see where lands, but unless something happens, I don't think we'll have, DVDs, five years from

Geoff: 00:12:00

uh, five

Bill: 00:12:01

We've seen pretty rapid decrease in the last

Geoff: 00:12:03

the

Geoff: 00:12:04

yeah, I'm not surprised.

Geoff: 00:12:05

I don't even own a DVD player anymore.

Geoff: 00:12:08

Haven't for a few years, but other than just technology changing, is there another reason?

Bill: 00:12:15

Well, from our perspective, postage keeps going up, printing prices keep going up, we just can't find more buyers.

Bill: 00:12:22

The people that are mail order buyers, of DVD product is declining.

Bill: 00:12:26

So we're having to mail less and less, and when you mail less and less, you get less orders, and it's just a downward spiral, where, you know, 20 years ago everything, you know, we were growing at 30 percent a year.

Bill: 00:12:38

Right.

Bill: 00:12:38

Yeah.

Bill: 00:12:39

Interesting.

Bill: 00:12:40

well, we definitely want to hear what you're working on currently, but we're going to have to talk about that in the next interview.

Bill: 00:12:46

However, do you have any final thoughts for our listeners for this particular portion of the interview?

Bill: 00:12:51

would just say if they haven't checked out Redeem TV, we'd encourage them to do it.

Bill: 00:12:55

We've got a, Great selection of programming and it's, free to view.

Bill: 00:13:00

And it's on most streaming, apps, Roku and Apple TV and Amazon Fire and, the Apple apps and the Android app.

Geoff: 00:13:08

and directly on the internet of course.

Bill: 00:13:11

Yeah.

Bill: 00:13:11

RedeemTV.

Bill: 00:13:12

com.

Geoff: 00:13:13

Cool.

Geoff: 00:13:14

and we'll put that in our show notes so people can go and find it easily there.

Geoff: 00:13:19

we'll look forward to talking with you more.

Bill: 00:13:21

Sounds good.