Why You Need a Line Producer, With Jill Bugbee

Speaker: 00:00:00

Welcome to Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast.

Speaker: 00:00:03

My name is Jaclyn Whitt.

Speaker: 00:00:05

Today we have Jill Bugbee with us.

Speaker: 00:00:07

Based in Atlanta, Georgia, Jill Bugbee and her husband, Eric, are the founders of Blue Trail Productions.

Speaker: 00:00:13

Early in their marriage, they found common ground in the love of storytelling, filmmaking, and adventure.

Speaker: 00:00:19

Since launching their company together in 2004, they have helped many decision makers take their businesses to a higher level.

Speaker: 00:00:26

Welcome to the show, Jill Bugbee.

Jill: 00:00:28

Hello.

Jill: 00:00:29

Thanks for having me, Jaclyn.

Jill: 00:00:31

So excited.

Jaclyn: 00:00:31

Me too.

Jaclyn: 00:00:32

Um, okay, so did you always want to work in the film industry?

Jill: 00:00:37

Actually, not.

Jill: 00:00:38

Um, I always loved movies growing up, but, um, you know, it's a funny story because I was actually trained and educated in the sciences.

Jill: 00:00:47

My background is in biomedical engineering.

Jill: 00:00:50

I have a, Bachelor's in it.

Jill: 00:00:51

I have a master's degree in it.

Jill: 00:00:53

I graduated from the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

Jill: 00:00:57

And, um, aside from getting full ride scholarships in those fields, I actually, yeah, yeah, my parents couldn't afford it.

Jill: 00:01:05

So I had to work really hard.

Jill: 00:01:07

And so, and it was also part of their dream for my life, right?

Jill: 00:01:10

It's like sometimes We have those things where we want to please our parents and, they just gave me three choices, really.

Jill: 00:01:16

Either become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer.

Jill: 00:01:19

So I did the whole eanie, meanie, minie, mo, what's the best for me right now?

Jill: 00:01:22

But when I got married, though, to my husband, Eric, back in 2003, right after I graduated, biomedical engineering, we both lost our jobs, you know, in the first year.

Jill: 00:01:30

I was in the biomedical sector.

Jill: 00:01:32

He was, working as a producer, a cinematographer, editor for a news magazine at a local, um, news station.

Jill: 00:01:39

And then, um, The anchor woman already left.

Jill: 00:01:41

And so we were like, okay, Lord, what are we going to do?

Jill: 00:01:44

First year of marriage.

Jill: 00:01:45

We're out of jobs, right?

Jill: 00:01:48

So, so we prayed a lot.

Jill: 00:01:49

We prayed a lot.

Jill: 00:01:50

And so Eric got a dream and, uh, in that dream , God was giving him stacks of plates.

Jill: 00:01:56

So after that, we prayed about it and we felt that God was leading us to start our own production company.

Jill: 00:02:01

We service companies, corporations, nonprofits, you know, we did hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of productions already because we've been doing it for 20 years.

Jill: 00:02:09

Um, as of now, and we've 20 years as well.

Jill: 00:02:13

It's basically like, You know, those discs were still represented back then, like DVDs.

Jill: 00:02:17

That was DVDs back then.

Jill: 00:02:19

Yeah, so it just came to pass, you know, we told company's stories, non profit's stories, um, from commercials to, company profiles, training videos, trade shows, all, you name it.

Jill: 00:02:28

So 750 plus later, right?

Jaclyn: 00:02:32

Right.

Jaclyn: 00:02:32

Yeah.

Jill: 00:02:33

Our real dream though and which is always what he also envisioned, ever since he went through film school at Penn State was to really, get into feature films, and TV eventually.

Jill: 00:02:43

And so we did our first feature film in 2015.

Jill: 00:02:45

We released it, but we first started conceiving of the story in 2008.

Jill: 00:02:50

So it was a long process, you know, to get that off the ground.

Jaclyn: 00:02:53

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:02:54

I always tell people that anything in the film industry, it does not happen quickly.

Jaclyn: 00:02:58

Mm

Jill: 00:02:59

Even though you're like, okay, we're ready to go.

Jill: 00:03:01

Um, but yeah, that was a seven year saga for us for our first feature film.

Jill: 00:03:04

But we learned a lot cause we really helmed it from, story, story concept, what if this happens?

Jill: 00:03:10

And that happens.

Jill: 00:03:10

And all the way to script writing, um, which we brought on two other writers with us and then, um, from producing it, getting it, you know, packaged, funded, produced, and then selling it out there to distributors, right?

Jill: 00:03:23

Distribution, and then eventually marketing it ourselves as well.

Jill: 00:03:25

So we really ran the full gamut from conception all the way to, to distribution.

Jill: 00:03:29

So we learned a lot of mistakes that we're not going to do anymore, uh, going forward and also a lot of wins.

Jill: 00:03:36

So that was exciting.

Jill: 00:03:38

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:03:38

Yeah, for sure.

Jaclyn: 00:03:40

Actually, you talk a lot about, when you're doing mentorship or anything like that, you talk about the mistakes that you made, the things that you learned from it.

Jaclyn: 00:03:47

And I love that because, I love how you would say, "okay, real talk guys".

Jaclyn: 00:03:52

And, you know, because that is the reality.

Jaclyn: 00:03:56

Like working in the film industry, nothing is done overnight, It's not done without hard work, and it's not done without having to learn some things the hard way, along the way.

Jaclyn: 00:04:06

And, you know, so to be in this industry, like, you need to have that thick skin and that perseverance to be able to push through those times where it feels like all the doors are closed.

Jaclyn: 00:04:16

Um, and so briefly, I'll just talk about how I met you and Eric, uh, because you guys were offering this online bootcamp, this free...

Jill: 00:04:25

Free...

Jill: 00:04:25

free Challenge.

Jaclyn: 00:04:26

Five days of like crash course of this how you make a movie.

Jaclyn: 00:04:30

And I was like, Ooh, like I...

Jill: 00:04:33

what to do and what not to

Jill: 00:04:34

do.

Jaclyn: 00:04:34

Exactly, exactly.

Jaclyn: 00:04:36

Like I had already been studying for screenwriting.

Jaclyn: 00:04:39

I knew I wanted to get into screenwriting.

Jaclyn: 00:04:41

And so then when I saw this and it was free, I was like, this is the right price for me.

Jaclyn: 00:04:44

I can't I would be a fool not to attend this, right?

Jaclyn: 00:04:48

But honestly, you guys didn't mention anything about faith, but there was some kind of connection where I just felt like I'm pretty sure.

Jaclyn: 00:04:57

And I think of it do with, your outlook, with your attitude toward failure or not failure is the wrong word, but like, you know, learning the hard way.

Jaclyn: 00:05:06

There was a different kind of attitude toward it that I really appreciated that I thought seemed like a Biblical attitude.

Jaclyn: 00:05:12

And so the more I got to know you guys, then I started to realize, Oh, we do share the same heart.

Jaclyn: 00:05:17

Okay.

Jaclyn: 00:05:17

is great.

Jaclyn: 00:05:18

We the same love for our God, yes.

Jaclyn: 00:05:22

And something told me like, these are people you need to connect with.

Jaclyn: 00:05:26

And so for me, didn't know how to say that to you without freaking you out or creeping So, so I was just like, okay, well, whatever you offer, I'm in, you know?

Jaclyn: 00:05:34

I know, and it was like that was such an amazing year, with you, so it was fantastic.

Jaclyn: 00:05:38

Yeah, I very much enjoyed that.

Jill: 00:05:40

But it's interesting.

Jill: 00:05:41

We actually, even from that, wording, uh, that we got, it was something that we coined, Eric and I.

Jill: 00:05:46

It was actually from our business mentor.

Jill: 00:05:48

It was what he always said, teachers can tell you the steps, but mentors can show you the scars.

Jill: 00:05:53

So people learn more a lot sometimes from the failures of others.

Jill: 00:05:57

And so they go, Hey, these are the things not to do.

Jill: 00:05:59

And these are things to do.

Jill: 00:06:00

Right.

Jill: 00:06:00

So in our first movie, we both had two sets, you know, the things that we did really well, the things that we didn't do well.

Jill: 00:06:05

And one of the things that we didn't really do well as budget correctly, right?

Jill: 00:06:09

We just had this like arbitrary, you know, number, and then we just threw it out there.

Jill: 00:06:13

Cause like so and so did it.

Jill: 00:06:14

And this director did it and that director did it for his first film.

Jill: 00:06:16

And then we didn't really budget correctly.

Jill: 00:06:19

So what ended up happening was that We didn't pay ourselves, first of all, for all the, the story development, for the script writing, for the producing, for the directing, for the editing.

Jill: 00:06:27

I mean, we didn't pay ourselves for anything.

Jill: 00:06:29

And so we paid everybody else, right?

Jill: 00:06:31

So, um, it was one of those things where I think we bit off more than we could, chew.

Jill: 00:06:36

And we were going from passion, um, because we're super excited.

Jill: 00:06:40

Our first film.

Jill: 00:06:41

But yeah, the budgeting was, was huge.

Jill: 00:06:43

And so now going forward in our films, we are actually employing a professional line budgeter, meaning the person that really knows, okay, this is really what's going to cost and then putting a bunch of padding, at least 10 percent contingency, percent contingency of your budget is basically like, okay, if you go over budget, you have that contingency.

Jill: 00:07:00

And so right now, like moving forward, we're getting more into the actual real budgets, but at the same time, there's also a challenge.

Jill: 00:07:07

Okay, if it's a real budget and we're talking about millions here, as opposed to, you know, micro budgets, uh, under 500, even ultra micro budget under 100, 000, then you really have to, take a little bit more time and you have to be more strategic and really finding the money.

Jill: 00:07:21

Financing can come in all different kinds of ways.

Jill: 00:07:23

So

Jaclyn: 00:07:24

Mm hmm, for

Jill: 00:07:24

Lots of mistakes, lots of wins as well.

Jill: 00:07:26

And part of the wins, okay, let me just tell you this.

Jaclyn: 00:07:28

Yeah, yeah, please.

Jill: 00:07:29

Part of the really big wins, actually, that, I was able to do as a producer on our first project was to get all your catering covered.

Jill: 00:07:37

That means all your food.

Jill: 00:07:38

Do not ever give your crew pizzas or, you know, anything heavy carbs because there's going to be a crash and nobody's going to want to work.

Jill: 00:07:46

And you, you know, 10, 12, 14, 16 hours...

Jill: 00:07:49

No, you can't have that.

Jill: 00:07:50

So really what I did, what was a really amazing strategy, um, That I believe was from the Lord.

Jill: 00:07:56

He just said, well, just, ask the local restaurants, you know, and so I was able to get 16 restaurants to cater all of our meals for 40 days.

Jill: 00:08:04

40 day filming.

Jill: 00:08:04

Well, 30 days first and then another 10 days.

Jill: 00:08:07

And so they, each restaurant would cater at least, um, two meals, you know, so our crew and cast were super happy, even though we didn't get to pay them a whole lot.

Jill: 00:08:15

They were super happy because the meals were amazing and they're always different from different restaurants.

Jill: 00:08:19

So they were always looking forward to that.

Jill: 00:08:21

at least it gives the camaraderie and it was all free.

Jill: 00:08:24

And then all you can give them is basically, okay, you know, we'll put your logo, in all of our social media.

Jill: 00:08:30

We'll do like, all of the push, uh, shout outs out there and also your logo at the end credits of our film, you know, whether people see that or not, but at least it's still kind of cool to them, I think

Jaclyn: 00:08:39

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:08:39

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:08:40

They're part of something that lives on.

Jill: 00:08:42

Yes.

Jill: 00:08:42

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:08:42

Wow.

Jaclyn: 00:08:43

Okay, so, just to kind of recap briefly here.

Jaclyn: 00:08:45

So, for somebody who's thinking, okay, I want to get into filmmaking, and so something that you did not do right was just pick an arbitrary budget, but what you, what you're doing now because you learned from that is to work with a line producer.

Jaclyn: 00:08:58

And a line producer is the one that goes through the script and is able to organize the needs for how much things are going to cost.

Jill: 00:09:07

Mm Correct, yes.

Jill: 00:09:08

And then make sure to, to pick a line producer that actually knows tax incentives because tax incentives key, especially if you're filming in, um, United States or even internationally.

Jill: 00:09:17

There are other nations for sure that have tax incentives.

Jill: 00:09:20

Meaning, you know, that certain country or certain state will give you back as a portion, whether 20 to 30%, some are 40%.

Jill: 00:09:26

I think Malta, I think, or, in Greece or Georgia, uh, the country, Georgia.

Jill: 00:09:31

And so, you know, you really need to have that producer know, this is what the tax incentives are, so you can save more money.

Jill: 00:09:37

And then this is also what all the, the crew positions are, you know, depending If your film is signed with unions like SAG or WGA or, um, DGA for the directors or, IATSE for all the crew.

Jill: 00:09:50

So, those are all the acronyms for all the...

Jill: 00:09:53

the unions.

Jill: 00:09:53

Hmm.

Jaclyn: 00:09:54

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:09:55

At least in America, right?

Jaclyn: 00:09:56

Like, I guess some of the rules will change if you go outside of Canada and the United States.

Jill: 00:10:02

Yeah, that line producer really has to be tied in pretty well with all the film unions of whatever cities and countries you're looking at into filming.

Jill: 00:10:11

Cause if they don't and they don't know the rules, then, you know, there could be a lot of delays on the film or, the budgeting is off and then they're like, Oh my gosh, we're under budgeted.

Jill: 00:10:18

it's always better to be a little bit more...

Jill: 00:10:20

Enough padding because, but then again, you don't want to over budget too much either because you could take so much time like trying to raise that money,.

Jill: 00:10:26

If you need something for, you know, it could only be shot for 5 million, for example, and you're trying to raise 10 million.

Jill: 00:10:31

It's like, well, it's a lot easier to raise a 5 million, right?

Jaclyn: 00:10:33

Well, yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:10:34

And even at that, Sometimes you can have two different budgets that considering and it's like, okay, which door is going to open first?

Jaclyn: 00:10:42

Because I could it for 1 million if I work with these actors, or it's going to be 5 million if I work with those actors.

Jaclyn: 00:10:50

And, you know, so which door is going to open for me?

Jill: 00:10:54

Right, right.

Jill: 00:10:54

I always wanna try for the best.

Jill: 00:10:56

Like for example, we're working with this one film right now, uh, that we option amazingly

Jill: 00:11:01

, Jaclyn: Yeah, we could talk about that.

Jill: 00:11:02

Ok, awesome.

Jill: 00:11:04

Well, we are proud, Eric and I are so proud to actually, um, have optioned Jaclyn's screenplay, uh, Solitary Refinement.

Jill: 00:11:11

It is fantastic.

Jill: 00:11:12

Every time we allow somebody to read it, they are either crying or they can't put the script down.

Jill: 00:11:16

It's just, it's just phenomenal.

Jill: 00:11:18

Um, so we've had the privilege to option it.

Jill: 00:11:20

And so, yeah, we're going for a 5 million budget for that film.

Jill: 00:11:24

And, uh, we do have a second option, for 1 million or less.

Jill: 00:11:28

But, at this stage, I, as a producer, you know, um, having done our first film and what we did, wrong there, what we did right, we now have the grid.

Jill: 00:11:37

We're like, okay, we'll do it properly.

Jill: 00:11:39

And so we're just really going for the best first.

Jill: 00:11:42

And that way we can actually attach name actors.

Jill: 00:11:45

Now, name actors are the recognizable names.

Jill: 00:11:47

Not necessarily an A list, you know, so it could also be a B list, which is one of those people, most of you guys already know, oh, I know that guy, I know that gal, right, so that one.

Jaclyn: 00:11:57

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:11:58

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:11:58

I know their face.

Jaclyn: 00:11:59

I've seen them on something.

Jill: 00:12:01

Yeah, so those are the B list, so we're going for that, and so if we get an A list, that would be great, We want those because for these kinds of films, you want to be able to have what's called a pre sale in distribution.

Jill: 00:12:12

And then a pre sale is basically a letter of intent from a distributor.

Jill: 00:12:16

But when you finally attach a name, even one recognizable name, your script all of a sudden gets elevated to another level where they can actually give you the numbers.

Jill: 00:12:24

Oh, this one would sell in Canada or in Europe territory, Asian territory, for a certain amount.

Jill: 00:12:30

And so they give you those numbers, and then those are the numbers that then you can take to what's called the finance or film financing company.

Jill: 00:12:37

And then that company will then give you the actual money because they know that when you finally sell it in return, they will get those.

Jill: 00:12:43

And so that's how it works in terms of the film financing, on that side.

Jill: 00:12:47

And then you've got your tax credit.

Jill: 00:12:48

For example, here in Georgia, We're based in Atlanta, Georgia, and we have up to 30%.

Jill: 00:12:53

So already that film financing company will already be like, Well, here's 30 percent of the budget, you know, in cash.

Jill: 00:12:59

So you already have that, and then the presales, so you really only need to raise, depending on the presales, um, You know, of the budget is pretty much taken care of, right?

Jill: 00:13:09

And then the rest, you have to get equity, you know?

Jill: 00:13:11

So that's how it works with, financing films on more of the traditional way.

Jaclyn: 00:13:15

Mm.

Jaclyn: 00:13:16

Yeah, I guess that's stuff that you, you know, going into your first movie and you didn't know that, and so you just got started.

Jill: 00:13:23

Yeah.

Jill: 00:13:24

That was all friends and family.

Jill: 00:13:25

Right.

Jill: 00:13:25

All of...

Jill: 00:13:26

Most filmmakers start...

Jill: 00:13:27

friends and family or crowdfunding.

Jill: 00:13:28

Or like, we also did company sponsorships.

Jill: 00:13:30

So that's something too that's a really good thing.

Jill: 00:13:32

Like if you have like, um, certain products that companies want to actually feature some of the products, that's a good way.

Jill: 00:13:39

Because our first movie was about BMX and extreme sports.

Jill: 00:13:41

So we got a lot of bike companies and all that stuff too that participated, so you get money that way too.

Jill: 00:13:47

So...

Jaclyn: 00:13:47

Nice.

Jaclyn: 00:13:48

Nice.

Jaclyn: 00:13:48

tell me a bit about that movie and then, you know, where people can watch it, because is a really well made movie.

Jill: 00:13:54

Yeah, thank you.

Jill: 00:13:55

Um, that movie is called Heroes of Dirt.

Jill: 00:13:57

And that's really from my husband Eric's background.

Jill: 00:14:00

He grew up riding, BMX bikes.

Jill: 00:14:02

You know those, in ESPN...

Jill: 00:14:02

it's like X Games, like all the ones that twirl around and do stunts.

Jaclyn: 00:14:06

Yeah, my brother did a little bit too.

Jill: 00:14:08

Yeah, there's a BMX racing where they just race and then there's a BMX freestyle, which is all the stunts.

Jill: 00:14:13

And so Eric did the stunts.

Jill: 00:14:15

But yeah, he grew up, doing that starting at 10, 10 years old.

Jill: 00:14:18

And he would go with his buddies and then they would carve out all these amazing trails in the woods.

Jill: 00:14:22

Like acres and acres.

Jill: 00:14:24

So that was his background, and then he eventually went to film school.

Jill: 00:14:27

And so that was really the first film that was the closest to his heart as a story.

Jill: 00:14:31

And so it's about a young man's passion to achieve greatness in the sport of BMX.

Jill: 00:14:35

And then he realizes true significance by mentoring a troubled tean.

Jill: 00:14:38

So it's a really, a mentorship type of film and then Big Brothers, Big Sisters of America came on board.

Jill: 00:14:43

ESPN came on board to really promote us.

Jill: 00:14:45

So we really had like big partners from the beginning.

Jill: 00:14:48

When we released it after seven years, um, we had a, a lot of, amazing audience response actually.

Jill: 00:14:55

And we got critically acclaimed too one of the, um, reviewers from Rotten Tomatoes called it the best of, um, Hollywood and also art house films.

Jill: 00:15:03

It has that balance between the two.

Jill: 00:15:04

So that was a really cool, review.

Jill: 00:15:06

And, but one of the best things that I feel that the Lord really allowed us to see, even though with all the hard work and all the tears and blood and sweat and That got involved with that...

Jill: 00:15:17

because we were also raising two kids.

Jill: 00:15:18

You know, we had a year and a half year old.

Jill: 00:15:20

Colin was a year and a half year old when we did the production.

Jill: 00:15:22

And our kayla was a year and a half years old when we finally were like pushing into major marketing So, it was tough too because we had to balance that as well.

Jill: 00:15:30

But the lord I think really gave us like one of those winks, you know, that he gives you to let you know that you're on this path, right,?

Jill: 00:15:37

And that he put you on this path of filmmaking, no matter how hard it is.

Jill: 00:15:40

He actually, got the film, to be listed in, um, Vulture and, uh, New York Magazine as one of the 75 movies to watch the fall we released, because we released in 60 theatrical, markets.

Jill: 00:15:52

Limited theatrical, but still, It was amazing because we got listed in one of those 75 movies and we were with Hunger Games, we were with Star Wars Force Awakens, Spectre...

Jill: 00:16:01

There we are, like, little heroes of dirt, you know, like, you know, we didn't even have any names or any kind of recognizable faces.

Jill: 00:16:09

But yeah, I think that was a God wink for sure that encouraged me and Eric like no matter what, you know We didn't pay ourselves anything.

Jill: 00:16:15

Like we lost a lot of money It was almost like one of those things that he spoke to us like yeah you guys can make it onto this list, then you just have to persevere and you just have to do it next time with more wisdom, right?

Jill: 00:16:27

" In all your understanding get wisdom".

Jill: 00:16:28

That's what Solomon said in Proverbs.

Jill: 00:16:30

So yeah, like that was a really amazing experience, you know?

Jill: 00:16:34

Both tearfully amazing, and also like, joyfully amazing.

Jaclyn: 00:16:38

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:16:39

Were there any times, I mean, you said it took seven years to get, like to be distributed.

Jaclyn: 00:16:44

Was there any point in there where you were ready to just give it up?

Jill: 00:16:48

Oh

Jill: 00:16:48

yeah, for sure.

Jill: 00:16:49

Like after the first, I think, two, three years?

Jill: 00:16:51

Because we thought, oh my goodness, we didn't even pay ourselves anything.

Jill: 00:16:53

And then you have to understand too that because we put ourselves all into that film, we pretty much kind of neglected our actual Corporate video production business, so we had to kind of restart that all over again during that time.

Jill: 00:17:06

We put all of our effort and energy into that one film first, but I think it was a seed.

Jill: 00:17:11

You know, in the Bible, we...

Jill: 00:17:12

we read what we sow.

Jill: 00:17:13

So it was a seed of faith.

Jill: 00:17:15

It was a passion project.

Jill: 00:17:17

And, uh, we learned a lot through it all, and also learned perseverance, right?

Jill: 00:17:21

Like, even Paul said, you know, with trials, we, develop, perseverance, and then after perseverance, there's character, and after character, there's hope, right?

Jill: 00:17:29

So, so, those are the things that we really learned.

Jill: 00:17:32

I'm like, oh, gosh, that's great, like, you're developing perseverance and character, but now we're at the hope side, I think, so we're hopeful now.

Jill: 00:17:39

Yeah, but it was, a lot of, um, Testing for sure, and also the perseverance part, you know?

Jill: 00:17:44

But we were also like, okay, you know, our investors, that at believed in us, you know, they deserve a finished film, right?

Jill: 00:17:51

They deserve something that is amazing.

Jill: 00:17:53

So, um, even though we took our time and we just, bit the bullet, so to speak, and not even pay ourselves even through the editing process when we ran out of budget.

Jill: 00:18:00

It was one of those things where we just had to like, well, let's just use this opportunity to just edit the film and re edit the film and re edit the film.

Jill: 00:18:06

And what we did differently with this film that I think most, independent filmmakers do, is that we really did a lot of test audiences.

Jill: 00:18:13

Test audiences are where you, show the film, and you give them all anonymous cards, okay?

Jill: 00:18:18

"Don't write your name in it, but be as brutally honest as you can".

Jill: 00:18:21

And when you give people that permission, they're like, yes, I shall be brutally honest

Jill: 00:18:24

as

Jill: 00:18:25

I can.

Jaclyn: 00:18:25

Yes.

Jaclyn: 00:18:26

they don't have accountability.

Jaclyn: 00:18:27

They're allowed to be honest.

Jill: 00:18:29

Right.

Jill: 00:18:29

So we went through like three, four, five test audiences and this could comprise of like from 10 to, at first we started with 15, and then we went to 30, and then we went to 40 and a 50 and then a hundred audiences.

Jill: 00:18:41

We just incrementally got up and then by the time we got to the, the fifth one, and we, we were already like up upward in the 100, 1 75 type of, numbers.

Jill: 00:18:50

And when we were getting finally four to five stars, we were like, I think we're done

Jaclyn: 00:18:54

Mm hmm.

Jaclyn: 00:18:54

Yeah.

Jill: 00:18:55

We started out in the threes, you know, or twos, threes.

Jill: 00:18:58

So we just keep redoing it, Now it's on IMDb and we're hovering about between 5 to five right now.

Jill: 00:19:05

So hmm.

Jill: 00:19:06

at least that's a good thing.

Jaclyn: 00:19:07

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:19:08

Where people watch it?

Jill: 00:19:09

Oh, right now it's free on, uh, Tubi.

Jill: 00:19:13

It's also on Amazon Prime.

Jill: 00:19:15

Um, I believe it's also YouTube.

Jill: 00:19:16

So those are the ones that we have.

Jill: 00:19:18

It's all on, uh, Avod...

Jill: 00:19:20

ad based, VOD right now.

Jill: 00:19:22

But we've also sold internationally, like we got sold in, um, Asian territories, Africa, Middle Eastern, um, even in Greek, they changed our name, you know, because they can do

Jaclyn: 00:19:32

that.

Jaclyn: 00:19:32

Mm hmm.

Jaclyn: 00:19:32

Mm hmm.

Jill: 00:19:33

Whatever makes sense to, to that country.

Jaclyn: 00:19:35

Yeah, exactly.

Jaclyn: 00:19:36

sometimes when you go to different languages, like, because when you try to be clever in English, you know, and then you put it in a different language,

Jaclyn: 00:19:45

in a different language that cleverness doesn't always translate.

Jaclyn: 00:19:49

I was trying to explain a saying to some friends of mine, like, you know, the saying, preaching to the choir, and I was trying to explain what it meant, and I realized, like, Okay, so that would not translate, like, if, that was, um, you know, something that was important to a script , you'd have to come up with something that would mean the same and still be clever, but it's not going to be the same thing.

Jill: 00:20:11

Right, right.

Jill: 00:20:11

So when, films are sold internationally, you have to be open to really letting go of the title.

Jill: 00:20:16

Yeah.

Jill: 00:20:16

And then whatever makes sense there...

Jill: 00:20:18

they'll figure it out.

Jill: 00:20:19

Yeah.

Jill: 00:20:20

So yeah, that was our experience with the first film.

Jill: 00:20:23

So it was very rich for sure.

Jaclyn: 00:20:25

Awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:20:26

Well, I'm looking forward to speaking with you more and getting into some deeper things in the members portion of our interview.

Jaclyn: 00:20:32

Do you have any last words, for our listeners right now?

Jill: 00:20:37

I guess, one of the last words that I could always tell is, it's important to get wisdom.

Jill: 00:20:41

Because that's where Eric and I definitely in our passion, and then just kind of like, okay, we can do this.

Jill: 00:20:46

We tend to just do everything haphazardly or, you know, ahead of time or something like that.

Jill: 00:20:52

But yeah, like I really believe, even in Proverbs, um, Eric and I going through right now, this month, like just the 31 days of, Wisdom because there's 31 days in January.

Jill: 00:21:01

Um, we go through it with our business mentor and different other kingdom believers all throughout the world, and it's called 31 days of wisdom.

Jill: 00:21:06

And yeah, you just, I think just invest in wisdom.

Jill: 00:21:09

"In all your understanding, get wisdom".

Jill: 00:21:10

That's what it says, so...

Jaclyn: 00:21:11

Yeah, and wisdom is one of those things that, in the Bible it tells you to actually pursue it, like to ask for it, and that God will give it to you when you ask for it.

Jill: 00:21:21

Yes.

Jill: 00:21:21

It is even way more valuable than rubies and gold and silver and all that stuff, right?

Jill: 00:21:25

Because getting wisdom, it unlocks all of the problems, you know, if you have the wisdom for...

Jill: 00:21:30

Particularly with storytelling, filmmaking, all that stuff.

Jill: 00:21:33

There's definitely keys of wisdom that we all need to pursue, to be able to progress in this field.

Jill: 00:21:39

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:21:40

Absolutely.

Jaclyn: 00:21:42

Thank you so much.

Jaclyn: 00:21:43

This has been a really great interview.

Jaclyn: 00:21:44

Very insightful, lots of things to think about.

Jaclyn: 00:21:47

Uh, and I'm looking forward to speaking with you more.

Jill: 00:21:51

Awesome.

Jill: 00:21:51

Thank you, Jaclyn.