Writing for Television in Sitcom’s Golden Era

Jaclyn: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.

Jaclyn: 00:00:02

My name is Jaclyn, and today we've got Leilani Downer with us.

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Leilani is an accomplished producer and writer with over 30 years in network television.

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Her credits include several network television shows, including the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Sister Sister, Growing Pains, and a Different World.

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More recently, she wrote for Netflix, Julie and the Phantoms.

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Leilani has written and sold pilots to major networks and penned feature films, including ghostwriting two books.

Jaclyn: 00:00:30

A Skilled Script, doctor and Educator.

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She teaches at Asbury University and mentors, US service members abroad.

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Her directorial debut, 'The Arrangement', and her play, 'Don't Panic' highlight her expanding creative work.

Jaclyn: 00:00:44

Welcome to the podcast, Leilani.

Leilani: 00:00:46

Thank you.

Leilani: 00:00:47

It's great to be here.

Jaclyn: 00:00:49

Yeah, I'm excited to have you here and talk to you.

Jaclyn: 00:00:52

And the thing is that a lot of the time at faf Association, we have writers coming to us saying, do you have anyone who teaches episodic or do you have anything for episodic writing?

Jaclyn: 00:01:05

And that is one of the things that we've been wanting to move in that direction.

Jaclyn: 00:01:09

So I'm so excited to meet you.

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And so I wanna start to get to know you though.

Jaclyn: 00:01:14

Where did this start for you?

Jaclyn: 00:01:16

Where did filmmaking or anything like that start in your life?

Leilani: 00:01:21

Right.

Leilani: 00:01:21

Well, you know, I didn't grow up in Los Angeles or anywhere near the entertainment business as it as it is.

Leilani: 00:01:28

Um, so I grew up in Northern California.

Leilani: 00:01:31

My father was in the military.

Leilani: 00:01:33

We traveled a bit.

Leilani: 00:01:34

But I grew up having a love for all things entertainment.

Leilani: 00:01:38

I loved watching television as a child, and I loved the theater.

Leilani: 00:01:43

meaning being able to go to see a movie on the weekend with family and friends.

Leilani: 00:01:48

So I knew from a very early age that something I wanted to do, I wanted to be a part of that.

Leilani: 00:01:54

Simultaneously, I was a writer, I was writing things, I was journaling and as a young child and I had a sense of story, I think a little bit here and there.

Leilani: 00:02:05

And uh, so eventually I decided to go to college in Los Angeles because I knew enough to know that's where the heart of the entertainment business was.

Leilani: 00:02:14

So I started, my college career, took place at UCLA and they didn't have any practical education in regards to script writing.

Leilani: 00:02:23

In the undergrad area.

Leilani: 00:02:25

So I became a communications major and I had a, a really fruitful season as a college student.

Leilani: 00:02:33

I. Then after that, um, I decided to stay in Los Angeles and find a job upon graduation.

Leilani: 00:02:41

And sometimes you don't find the exact job you want after college.

Leilani: 00:02:45

You know, it doesn't fit your major.

Leilani: 00:02:47

But I started working at a radio station in the Los Angeles area, a station called K Earth Radio.

Leilani: 00:02:55

And one day I was working in the sales department, not really writing, just, you know, a job around what.

Leilani: 00:03:02

Growing up I considered to be entertainment as well, radio, and I loved radio as well.

Leilani: 00:03:07

So one day it was very early and I came into work and our receptionist was sick and they asked me to be the receptionist that day.

Leilani: 00:03:17

Well, I didn't have a lot of skills.

Leilani: 00:03:19

It was like asking, uh, Lucille Ball from I love

Leilani: 00:03:22

Lucy to be on the reception desk.

Leilani: 00:03:24

So, uh, you know, I reluctantly sat behind the desk and then what happened was a call came through.

Leilani: 00:03:32

By a woman who said that she was pretty depressed, she didn't wanna go to work.

Leilani: 00:03:36

And she said, but you, your radio station played my favorite song.

Jaclyn: 00:03:41

Mm.

Leilani: 00:03:41

therefore I just wanted to call in and say, it made me feel better and I wanted to thank you and please tell the dj thanks.

Leilani: 00:03:49

Well, this is kind of, yeah, a different kind of situation.

Leilani: 00:03:52

So I asked her, I said, where do you work?

Leilani: 00:03:55

You know, I started having that conversation with her.

Leilani: 00:03:57

She told me that she was one of the producers on a show called Moonlighting at the time.

Leilani: 00:04:03

That was Bruce Willis' big series in television, and she said that they were up for so many Emmys.

Leilani: 00:04:09

It was the night after the Emmys just so happened to be, and they were up for so many Emmys and they just won for editing.

Leilani: 00:04:15

And she said I was pretty depressed.

Leilani: 00:04:18

And, um, so I was like, from where I was sitting, I was trying to encourage her.

Leilani: 00:04:24

But what I did after the phone call ended was because I worked at a radio station and we had lots of giveaways.

Leilani: 00:04:31

I put together a basket for her and I sent her the basket and I also asked her, I said, can I come down and, and talk to you?

Leilani: 00:04:40

And so she responded, of course, right away.

Leilani: 00:04:43

She invited me to her office at the 20th Century Fox Lot over in Culver City, and we had lunch in her office.

Leilani: 00:04:52

And at that point she asked me, she said, we had a really nice conversation.

Leilani: 00:04:57

She wasn't originally from Los Angeles.

Leilani: 00:05:00

And she said, well, what do you wanna do?

Leilani: 00:05:02

And I said, I wanna work in television, you know, and it seemed a little bit more accessible at the time.

Leilani: 00:05:08

And so she said, well, she said, can you write.

Leilani: 00:05:13

I said, I write and she said, well, some of it you have to be born with, but you can learn.

Leilani: 00:05:18

You can learn to write.

Leilani: 00:05:20

And so anyway, long story short, by the end of her lunch, she said, I'm gonna help you.

Jaclyn: 00:05:25

Wow.

Leilani: 00:05:26

you.

Leilani: 00:05:27

Yeah.

Leilani: 00:05:27

So it was kind of interesting.

Leilani: 00:05:29

I didn't know what to expect.

Leilani: 00:05:31

The funny thing is she had a southern drawl and I thought.

Leilani: 00:05:35

She's not from Los Angeles.

Leilani: 00:05:36

She could be telling me the truth,

Leilani: 00:05:39

you know?

Leilani: 00:05:40

Uh, so, so then, it took a couple of months, but she was instrumental in getting me my first job in television, and I was hired to be the assistant to the producer on the show, A different World, and he happened to be her husband.

Leilani: 00:05:57

They were both writers.

Leilani: 00:05:58

I came along and I started working for him.

Leilani: 00:06:01

Now remember, I'm very green, don't know the job, but the blessing and the thing that was kind of so unconventional was that they hired somebody to teach me how to put a script together as I was doing my job.

Leilani: 00:06:16

And that was a blessing.

Leilani: 00:06:17

It was just like out of the blue and you know, so, you know, godlike.

Leilani: 00:06:22

So I learned the job.

Leilani: 00:06:23

I learned the ins and outs of what a show was and hiatus and what that meant, and all of that kind of stuff.

Leilani: 00:06:31

And while I was there, remember I didn't have practical education in terms of how to write a script.

Leilani: 00:06:37

I started reading the scripts that the writers were working on and gleaning from them.

Leilani: 00:06:43

And then I got to a point where I started to take their outlines because every show that you write, you start with an outline.

Leilani: 00:06:51

And, um, that's part of the pay schedule, even with the WGA and with the studios.

Leilani: 00:06:56

They pay you for the outline, they pay you for the script and so on and so forth . And so my writers on A Different World, w ere writing outlines and I was being able to see them, so I would take one of their outlines and I would try and write the scene based on an outline that somebody else wrote.

Leilani: 00:07:16

And so I kind of gave myself a little bit of self-education that way.

Leilani: 00:07:20

Then in television you write spec scripts to get noticed.

Leilani: 00:07:25

It becomes part of your portfolio, whether it's a spec script or an original pilot.

Leilani: 00:07:29

And spec means you write on speculation and you're usually writing a show that already exists out there in the world.

Leilani: 00:07:36

So I decided I was gonna write a full fledged script, and my first full fledged script was family ties.

Leilani: 00:07:46

I'm giving you all the information on this.

Leilani: 00:07:47

So it was

Jaclyn: 00:07:48

I loved that show.

Jaclyn: 00:07:49

Yeah.

Leilani: 00:07:49

Yes.

Leilani: 00:07:50

And so I wrote about the characters and it wasn't good.

Leilani: 00:07:55

It was really bad.

Jaclyn: 00:07:56

Oh, the first script, you know, come on,

Leilani: 00:07:59

yes.

Leilani: 00:08:00

And I showed it to my boss.

Leilani: 00:08:02

He was the executive producer, and he said, you know, not everybody can write, you know, that was what I got from him.

Leilani: 00:08:08

And so,

Jaclyn: 00:08:09

don't show this to anyone.

Leilani: 00:08:11

Exactly, but I had showed it to one of the other writers who had become quickly, became my friend and would later become my mentor.

Leilani: 00:08:20

And she said, don't let anybody tell you what you can and can't do.

Leilani: 00:08:24

And she said, keep writing.

Leilani: 00:08:25

Don't give up if this is what you want.

Leilani: 00:08:27

I. So I decided, okay, next up I wrote a growing Pains.

Leilani: 00:08:32

And in writing the growing pains, it uh, was a different kind of a growing pains.

Leilani: 00:08:36

It was one of those back in the day they used to say, uh, this is, you know, a special F is so watch it with someone you love.

Leilani: 00:08:43

You know, that kind of a thing.

Leilani: 00:08:44

and it was about the Seaver family and their uncle had passed away.

Leilani: 00:08:50

Jason was supposed to, uh, give the eulogy and while he is like practicing and pontificating the way Jason usually did, his daughter Carol was kind of acting out a bit and the family later finds out that the uncle wasn't all that great and he had done some things, not, you know, not crossed, totally crossed the line, but things that were uncomfortable toward his niece, his young niece.

Leilani: 00:09:17

And so anyway, it was very, very special.

Leilani: 00:09:19

I. And Jason had to deal with it.

Leilani: 00:09:22

He had a crisis of faith knowing that he's, um, you know, his job was to be a psychologist and he didn't see it in his own child what was happening.

Leilani: 00:09:31

So, um, anyway, that's what I wrote.

Leilani: 00:09:33

I started to show it to the, my inner circle at the, uh, show itself and they were liking it and my executive producer got the buzz that I had a script that people were saying it's kind of really good.

Leilani: 00:09:47

He asked if he could read it, and so I let him read it and then he asked me if he could show it to his agent.

Leilani: 00:09:55

And I said, of course, yes.

Leilani: 00:09:57

And so then the, I had another agent that was interested this is, you know, networking and people wanting to help.

Leilani: 00:10:04

And I remember my first agency, the one I really won, it was United Talent Agent when that was called that at the time.

Leilani: 00:10:13

And I remember I had gone to lunch.

Leilani: 00:10:16

I came back and, and we were all PAs and assistants in the same building and all of us had a dream, right?

Leilani: 00:10:23

Uh, it could have been a show.

Leilani: 00:10:25

And I came back on the lot and a couple of my friends were coming toward me, and one of them, she kind of had tears in her eyes and she said.

Leilani: 00:10:33

UTA just called and they called for you.

Leilani: 00:10:36

That's what she said.

Leilani: 00:10:38

So long story short is I did sign with UTA and their whole thing was, you know, they have read the growing pain script and they said this is really good.

Leilani: 00:10:47

And they said, we can get you in the room with the executive producers over there.

Leilani: 00:10:51

And they said, we represent them.

Leilani: 00:10:53

And so I was like, okay.

Leilani: 00:10:55

And I didn't know anything.

Leilani: 00:10:56

I remember the writer who told me not to give up and I said, she had become my mentor.

Leilani: 00:11:01

She was said, this is what you do when you go in the meeting.

Leilani: 00:11:03

This is what you should wear.

Leilani: 00:11:04

This is how you should talk.

Leilani: 00:11:06

You should look at every, and she gave me all of this stuff.

Leilani: 00:11:09

So I went to the meeting with the Growing Pains folks, and the first question they said was.

Leilani: 00:11:15

What possessed you to write this script?

Leilani: 00:11:17

And I was like, well, you know, I kind of had a friend who went through this and you know, 'cause you write from what you know or what you, you know,

Jaclyn: 00:11:25

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:11:25

Especially when you're learning to write.

Leilani: 00:11:28

Exactly.

Leilani: 00:11:29

And so they said, this is really good.

Leilani: 00:11:31

They said, but we could never show this script on air.

Leilani: 00:11:35

And they said, the reason is, you know, they said, we're highly syndicated.

Leilani: 00:11:38

And they were at the time, and it was one of the hottest shows on tv.

Leilani: 00:11:42

And they said if we were to show this script or do it, people might think in the back of their heads.

Leilani: 00:11:49

When Carol's making jokes and the family's making jokes, that poor child, they don't even know what she went through, you know,

Jaclyn: 00:11:54

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:11:55

Yeah.

Leilani: 00:11:56

So they said we couldn't do it, but they said, we wanna give you a script to write for us.

Leilani: 00:12:01

And that was really nice.

Leilani: 00:12:03

So I was like, okay.

Leilani: 00:12:04

That was my first assignment.

Leilani: 00:12:05

And so I got a chance to write a script for them as they said, well, we're gonna have you write a script.

Leilani: 00:12:11

And it was during hiatus, so everybody was off for like the summer break, right.

Leilani: 00:12:16

So I'm.

Leilani: 00:12:18

Waiting for that to happen.

Leilani: 00:12:19

But while I'm waiting for that to happen, my show, my executive producer gives me a script and he says, if you can come up with a story idea for this particular character that we are kind of spent, we don't know what to do with him.

Leilani: 00:12:32

If you can come up with something, then go ahead and we'll give you a script.

Leilani: 00:12:36

So this is happening simultaneously.

Leilani: 00:12:38

I had the offer at Growing Pains and I had a different world, which is where I was still working, saying that if I could come up with an idea, I could write the show.

Leilani: 00:12:48

So the character's name was Colonel Taylor.

Leilani: 00:12:51

He was in the military.

Leilani: 00:12:52

He was ROTC over at the college.

Leilani: 00:12:55

Right College.

Leilani: 00:12:56

And it just so happens one of those other blessing things is that my brother-in-law was ROTC at University.

Leilani: 00:13:04

Delaware, a military guy who was running the a O2 C program and then my father was military.

Leilani: 00:13:11

My brother was military, so I was like, I can come up with a story, you know, and I kind of came up with something that, about Colonel Taylor being honored and, but not really wanting to receive it because he, he felt flawed.

Leilani: 00:13:25

He had done some things that weren't perfect, and that's the kind of guy he was.

Leilani: 00:13:29

And the other thing that hurt him in the process of it all was they got somebody from his past that was gonna.

Leilani: 00:13:37

Present the award to him at this big gala that they were doing at the school.

Leilani: 00:13:41

So that was the storyline, and they loved it.

Leilani: 00:13:45

And we did the show.

Leilani: 00:13:47

And I actually got some email, not emails, uh, letters at the time from folks that had been in the military thanking me for the, the show itself.

Leilani: 00:13:56

And what it said about, even though you feel like you failed, that people see you in different ways.

Leilani: 00:14:02

They never saw him as a failure leading his men.

Leilani: 00:14:05

So I had a different world.

Leilani: 00:14:07

I got a chance to shoot it, and the night it premiered on NBC, it was scheduled right behind the Cosby Show, which was the hottest show of all times then, and it was right behind it.

Leilani: 00:14:20

And I had some friends come over, we were gonna watch it together, my episode, a, I got a call from my agent.

Leilani: 00:14:28

He said, your show's tonight.

Leilani: 00:14:29

He goes, but I wanted to call and let you know.

Leilani: 00:14:32

He said, growing pains said they don't want you to write the script anymore.

Leilani: 00:14:36

And so I was like, oh, okay.

Leilani: 00:14:38

And he said, they want you on staff.

Leilani: 00:14:41

And I was

Leilani: 00:14:42

like, it was so exciting.

Leilani: 00:14:44

So I had my different world and that night I knew I was a staff writer on growing pains.

Leilani: 00:14:50

So that's how all got started.

Jaclyn: 00:14:53

at the same time.

Leilani: 00:14:54

Well, growing pains.

Leilani: 00:14:55

I was a staff writer and remember, they're in the summer, it's in the hiatus period.

Leilani: 00:15:00

So they said When we come back, we want you on staff.

Leilani: 00:15:03

And then with a different world.

Leilani: 00:15:05

I was the assistant.

Leilani: 00:15:07

I was in a room full of other assistants.

Leilani: 00:15:10

I even had to write my script from my assistant desk.

Leilani: 00:15:13

They were comedy writers, so they're like, you're lucky you're not in the parking lot.

Leilani: 00:15:17

You know, that kind of thing.

Leilani: 00:15:18

But everybody was so encouraging and they knew.

Leilani: 00:15:21

I probably could have been hired on a different world, but they knew I was going elsewhere.

Leilani: 00:15:26

And sometimes you have to go elsewhere to grow and really take ownership of, 'cause you get seen in a different light from the minute it happens, you know?

Leilani: 00:15:35

Um, because I did love my a different World family, but I would've been working with my former production assistants and runners and things like that in a new position.

Leilani: 00:15:46

And so it felt good too.

Leilani: 00:15:48

Kind like they, uh, you know, they trained me, they helped me, they loved me, and now I'm going on to growing

Leilani: 00:15:52

paint.

Leilani: 00:15:53

So,

Leilani: 00:15:54

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:15:55

how you're sharing your story about these scripts that you wrote, and yeah, the first one wasn't great, but you kept writing,

Leilani: 00:16:01

Mm-hmm.

Jaclyn: 00:16:02

though you did write a really great episode that.

Jaclyn: 00:16:05

Got attention from an agent and the show itself, that one didn't get produced, but it got you in the door and it got you the job.

Jaclyn: 00:16:13

And I think that's one of the things for writers to keep in mind that when you write something on spec, whether or not it gets made is not necessarily the the most important piece because it may not get made, but it may open those doors for you to produce or to write other things that will get made.

Leilani: 00:16:31

Exactly.

Leilani: 00:16:32

You have to look at your writing like you know, you're writing to build your portfolio, right?

Leilani: 00:16:37

So you write your first script ever.

Leilani: 00:16:39

And the one day you look up and you've got several scripts or 10 scripts, and those are things that when jobs become available or opportunities out arise, that you can pull one of your scripts and say, this is a good fit for that show, or that this is a good fit for somebody looking to write that movie and just show what you could do.

Leilani: 00:16:58

These days, specs are still around, but more and more people wanna see pilots because it really speaks to the voice of the writer.

Leilani: 00:17:06

what would they do if they could do anything they wanted to do?

Leilani: 00:17:09

And that's what a pilot shows and how you relate to characters and all of that to each other.

Jaclyn: 00:17:14

Do you mean an original pilot or a pilot for a show that's already in existence.

Leilani: 00:17:19

An original pilot when we're talking about that, when you're writing for a show that's already existence, it's always called spec, but the, the difference between specs and and pilots is that the pilot comes directly from you.

Leilani: 00:17:33

You created the world, you created the characters that live in that world and the storylines.

Leilani: 00:17:39

Um, and then, then I always hear, put everything in the pilot that you want the studio to see, because later, you know, it's hard to come back and create new characters, you know, after they've bought it.

Leilani: 00:17:51

If they choose to buy a pilot, people have gotten into the business by selling their pilots that they write, and then other times you write a pilot, as you were saying, just to have something to show and share.

Jaclyn: 00:18:03

Okay, we've got maybe like five minutes left of this particular episode, and so I kind of wanna go over some of the rest of like.

Jaclyn: 00:18:11

The journey.

Jaclyn: 00:18:12

'cause you've been on some other shows, which actually, I mean, I was a teenager in the nineties and I watched these shows and so, you know, you were part of the culture that helped to shape me, so.

Jaclyn: 00:18:23

So how did you move from growing pains into these other shows like Fresh Prince and Sister Sister, Hanging with Mister Cooper

Leilani: 00:18:30

Yeah.

Leilani: 00:18:31

Well, opportunities do arise when you're on a show and you, you have a network of people that know you, friends.

Leilani: 00:18:38

The lady who actually mentored me in the beginning telling me how to dress for the interview and all that.

Leilani: 00:18:44

She eventually became the executive producer on Fresh Prince, and she asked me if I would join her, and that happens a lot.

Leilani: 00:18:51

Your agents are amazing and they can do good work for you in getting you general meetings and getting you out there, but sometimes you need to get pulled in by someone who knows you and appreciates your work.

Leilani: 00:19:02

So that happened.

Leilani: 00:19:04

And then shows don't last forever.

Leilani: 00:19:07

A different world finally went away and.

Leilani: 00:19:09

Growing pains.

Leilani: 00:19:10

I was on the final episode.

Leilani: 00:19:11

I was, uh, we wrote that as a group, the final episode.

Leilani: 00:19:15

All of our names are on the last episode of Growing Pains, and it came to an end and it was time to find another show.

Leilani: 00:19:21

And that's when, you know, I moved on to other series along the way.

Leilani: 00:19:26

And it's, it's great because you get to meet more people that way too.

Leilani: 00:19:31

Sometimes people stay on shows for a very, very long time.

Leilani: 00:19:34

Then when they end, you kind of like are back to square one.

Leilani: 00:19:38

You have to start making relationships again.

Leilani: 00:19:41

But the more shows you work on, I'm not saying hop, hop, hop, but that's the trait of the industry, especially now since most shows get eight episodes or maybe even six.

Leilani: 00:19:50

Back in the day we had 22 and so you were there for a very long time.

Leilani: 00:19:57

But more and more, uh, writers are jumping to other shows all the time.

Jaclyn: 00:20:01

Did you have a particular type or style of writing or television shows that you preferred or that you really felt drawn to?

Leilani: 00:20:11

I loved family sitcoms at the time, and those are are shows that have, uh, multiple cast members.

Leilani: 00:20:18

So it was kind of fun to write for different characters coming and going inside of each other's lives.

Leilani: 00:20:25

Even when you work on a show like Friends, friends is very single, got people, but a family really, and that's what, situation comedy was based on back in the day.

Leilani: 00:20:36

How do you build a family on shows like Cheers or Friends or any of the popular ones that you think of?

Leilani: 00:20:44

There's always that father figure and that kind of a thing.

Leilani: 00:20:47

So I did love working on that.

Leilani: 00:20:49

I started in something called Multicam, uh, shows which studio audience and all of that.

Leilani: 00:20:55

I love that.

Leilani: 00:20:56

I love the room working, with other writers.

Leilani: 00:21:00

Not to say I haven't worked by myself, especially as a freelancer or when I'm working on a movie, but I like the energy of working with other writers who are very fun, funny, and no structure, and I can learn from other people in doing that as well, I.

Jaclyn: 00:21:15

I love that.

Jaclyn: 00:21:16

Well, I have some questions ready for our next interview, um,

Leilani: 00:21:20

Okay.

Jaclyn: 00:21:21

wanna get into some of the details and strategies for writing episodic.

Jaclyn: 00:21:25

But I wanna thank you so much for sharing your backstory and your journey into film and television and the patience.

Jaclyn: 00:21:34

That it takes and even just the providence of God stepping in, introducing you

Leilani: 00:21:39

Yes.

Jaclyn: 00:21:39

people and, and

Leilani: 00:21:41

Yes.

Jaclyn: 00:21:41

like it started with you being kind to somebody that you.

Jaclyn: 00:21:45

You just happen to be in the right place at the right time, and somebody needed encouragement and you stepped up and everything kind of just flowed from there.

Jaclyn: 00:21:54

I, I, that's so amazing.

Jaclyn: 00:21:57

And so I wanna encourage listeners, if you happen to be in a position where somebody is needing encouragement, take the time, encourage them.

Jaclyn: 00:22:04

You have no idea where that's going to lead.

Jaclyn: 00:22:06

And even if it doesn't move you forward in your career, still be an encouragement for people.

Leilani: 00:22:12

I totally agree.

Leilani: 00:22:13

Thank you.

Jaclyn: 00:22:14

Thank you so much.

Jaclyn: 00:22:15

We'll see you in the next episode.