500 Short Films in 20 Years, with Brian Cates

Jaclyn: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast.

Jaclyn: 00:00:03

My name is Jaclyn Whitt, and today I have Brian Cates with me.

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Brian Cates is an Emmy award winning filmmaker and is best known as the director and co writer of the Dove Award nominated feature film, Family Camp.

Jaclyn: 00:00:14

Over the past 15 years, he has directed over 500 short films with the Skit Guys, and with them, has built one of the largest faith based short film distribution networks in the world.

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Brian Lives in Oklahomaa City with his wife and best friend Gina, and their three daughters.

Jaclyn: 00:00:30

Welcome to the show, Brian.

Brian: 00:00:32

Hey!

Brian: 00:00:32

Thanks for having me, Jaclyn.

Brian: 00:00:33

it's great to be here.

Jaclyn: 00:00:35

Thanks.

Jaclyn: 00:00:35

Okay, so I actually don't know you yet.

Jaclyn: 00:00:38

Um, I've been wanting to get to know you because I really want to see Family Camp, and I will get to see it soon, but it wasn't available in my region.

Jaclyn: 00:00:45

But it looks like such a good movie, and I have loved the Skit Guys for years.

Jaclyn: 00:00:49

So I am excited to get to know you.

Jaclyn: 00:00:52

My first question is, did you always want to work in film?

Brian: 00:00:56

Well, first of all, I'm excited to be here and I'm excited that you want to get to know me.

Brian: 00:01:01

We get to have the opportunity to do that right here, right now.

Brian: 00:01:04

This is going to be so much fun.

Brian: 00:01:06

But Yes, I always wanted to work in movies.

Brian: 00:01:08

I mean, my parents did a pretty good job getting me into Little League and Cub Scouts and off the sofa, but my default was definitely sitting down and watching movies.

Brian: 00:01:18

I started out, really, for years and years and years, I thought I wanted to be an actor.

Brian: 00:01:22

And so I did that, you know, I did musical theater and, competitive drama in high school and did as much of that as you can do.

Brian: 00:01:31

Um,

Jaclyn: 00:01:31

What's competitive drama?

Brian: 00:01:33

Okay, we gotta get into this.

Brian: 00:01:36

Um,

Jaclyn: 00:01:36

Sorry, I'm just like, should I ask, should I not ask?

Jaclyn: 00:01:40

I don't know what competitive drama is.

Brian: 00:01:42

Okay, to all your do make this movie.

Brian: 00:01:46

I am going to make this movie someday, okay?

Brian: 00:01:49

So, you, you've heard of like, debate tournaments, right?

Jaclyn: 00:01:52

Mm hmm.

Brian: 00:01:53

So, you know, drama tournaments...

Brian: 00:01:55

it's the exact same thing, except you get up and you battle out your monologue.

Brian: 00:02:01

So you do the monologue, you do the thing that you come in prepared for, the next person does their monologue, the next person does it , and they crown a winner.

Brian: 00:02:09

But there's all different categories.

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There's like humorous duet, dramatic duet, uh, standard oratory, which is a speech that someone else wrote, original oratory, a speech that you wrote.

Brian: 00:02:21

There's all kinds of different categories.

Brian: 00:02:23

So yeah, I did that, I did that for a long time.

Brian: 00:02:25

My favorite was, uh, humorous or dramatic interpretation.

Brian: 00:02:29

And what that was, you have to stand in one spot.

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You're not allowed to move.

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And you play all the characters.

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And it was wild.

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It was so wild.

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Schizophrenic.

Brian: 00:02:42

I mean, that's the word.

Brian: 00:02:43

That's the operative word for it.

Brian: 00:02:45

so,

Jaclyn: 00:02:45

Actually, I am an audiobook narrator, and so I do that.

Jaclyn: 00:02:49

I sit in one spot and I read all of the characters, all of the voices, and, oh man, yeah, that would be really crazy to do in front of an audience though.

Brian: 00:02:59

Oh my gosh.

Brian: 00:03:00

And it's so cool, because like, when you get to the state level, and you go to...

Brian: 00:03:04

you're competing against kids from all over your state, you see some incredible, incredible performances, especially in the interpretation.

Brian: 00:03:13

I mean, these kids are just wild.

Brian: 00:03:15

In our state, I'm sure it varies from state to state, but in our state, you were allowed to like pivot foot, or you could crouch down to the ground, but you know, like equivalent to traveling in basketball.

Brian: 00:03:26

You have to really rein it in and make sure you don't tip off the judges if you move too much.

Brian: 00:03:31

But like your arms, your, your upper body is all free to move.

Brian: 00:03:35

But, for the most part, your feet have to stay firmly planted on the ground.

Brian: 00:03:39

It's wild.

Jaclyn: 00:03:40

Wow.

Jaclyn: 00:03:40

How have I never heard of this?

Brian: 00:03:42

And they give out medals for this.

Jaclyn: 00:03:44

Okay.

Jaclyn: 00:03:45

How many did you win?

Brian: 00:03:46

I...

Brian: 00:03:47

we're, we're not counting.

Brian: 00:03:48

It's,

Brian: 00:03:48

it, I, I won, I won medals.

Brian: 00:03:51

But we're, we're not, we're not here to, to throw out, awards Especially for stuff that happened 25 years ago.

Brian: 00:03:57

Come on.

Jaclyn: 00:03:57

Yeah, sure.

Brian: 00:03:58

So yeah, I thought I wanted to be an actor.

Brian: 00:04:00

And then, when I was 17, my parents bought a mini DV camcorder.

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It was kind of like the family Chri...

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they do like a family Christmas gift every year.

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So it's something that my wife and I have continued on with our kids.

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Something fun that the whole family can enjoy.

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So they bought a camcorder.

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And I took it and I never gave it back.

Brian: 00:04:18

I wore the heads of of that thing.

Jaclyn: 00:04:19

Yeah, I was thinking, little did they know.

Brian: 00:04:22

Little did they know was really, little Brian's gift.

Brian: 00:04:24

So, you know, I started making dumb little, videos with my friends.

Brian: 00:04:28

Um, you know, Johnny Knoxville was really popular, on MTV, his show, Jackass.

Brian: 00:04:34

Can I say that on an industry podcast?

Brian: 00:04:36

I mean, that is the name of it.

Brian: 00:04:38

It is the name the show.

Brian: 00:04:40

I mean, it's technically not, is it swearing?

Brian: 00:04:42

I don't know, you can edit it out if it is, but...

Jaclyn: 00:04:44

I don't know.

Jaclyn: 00:04:44

We'll see.

Brian: 00:04:45

It's the name of the show.

Brian: 00:04:47

So, we were making those types of videos, you know, we would just go and do stupid things.

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So my youth pastor, said, Hey, Brian, would you like to start making, like, Wednesday night videos for youth group?

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And I was like, well, If you need Wednesday night videos, obviously I'm your man.

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This is, is going to happen.

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And so, that's what I started doing.

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I had a weekly time slot.

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And, I had a deadline.

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And I had, to come up with content.

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I had to figure out what it was.

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I also had an audience that I had to be mindful of.

Brian: 00:05:21

Um, I couldn't go too over the top.

Brian: 00:05:23

You know, it's youth group, so wild and crazy, but I couldn't go like full on Johnny Knoxville, right?

Jaclyn: 00:05:29

Right.

Jaclyn: 00:05:29

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:05:30

No.

Brian: 00:05:30

uh, so, we started with just crazy feats of stupidness.

Brian: 00:05:35

And then, started getting into some narrative stuff and, making some little comedies and, we made one absolutely terrible Matrix spoof one year for camp, uh, multi part series.

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We played it in the cabin devotionals every night.

Brian: 00:05:48

It was terrible.

Brian: 00:05:49

It was so, so bad.

Brian: 00:05:50

Um,

Jaclyn: 00:05:51

I bet it was fun though.

Brian: 00:05:52

no, no, it will never see the light of day.

Jaclyn: 00:05:55

Okay.

Brian: 00:05:56

But yeah, that was really kind of how I got started.

Brian: 00:05:58

And the whole, the whole time I, thought, yeah, it'd be cool to make movies one day.

Brian: 00:06:02

And then I was actually at church camp when I felt like God was calling me to the ministry.

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And like a lot of kids, you know, you don't, you don't really know what that means.

Brian: 00:06:10

You just kind of default, Okay, I'll be a youth pastor.

Brian: 00:06:13

Okay.

Brian: 00:06:13

I'll be a children's pastor.

Jaclyn: 00:06:14

Mm...

Jaclyn: 00:06:14

right,.

Brian: 00:06:15

So I didn't know what it meant.

Brian: 00:06:17

I thought it'd be really cool to kind of be a cinematographer for like a missions organization and kind travel all over the world, making mission films and testimony.

Jaclyn: 00:06:25

be awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:06:25

That would be fun..

Brian: 00:06:26

I'd still love do it.

Brian: 00:06:27

So if you're there, I might be available for hire one of these days.

Brian: 00:06:31

I'd love go tell those stories.

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So I went to college.

Brian: 00:06:34

I think I'm going to be a missionary...

Brian: 00:06:36

a filmmaker missionary, maybe?

Brian: 00:06:39

And then got a job at a church where Tommy Woodard of the Skit Guys was the teaching pastor.

Brian: 00:06:46

And like, within a few weeks we started making shorts together, and the rest is history.

Brian: 00:06:52

so, um, it was just kind of cool how God used, putting me on a path of making content for the church to meet the men that he had, You know, created for me to collaborate with and, created me to collaborate with them.

Brian: 00:07:05

And so, we've been doing that for, it's almost 20 years now,

Jaclyn: 00:07:09

Yeah, was gonna say, I know it's been a while because I've seen them for such a long time.

Brian: 00:07:14

Yeah.

Brian: 00:07:14

So my first day at that church was June 1st, 2004.

Brian: 00:07:18

So it'll it'll be 20 years this summer.

Jaclyn: 00:07:22

Wow.

Jaclyn: 00:07:23

So did it go from being something that you made for your church to something that was distributed so far beyond just your church?

Brian: 00:07:31

That's a great question.

Brian: 00:07:32

So, before we started getting into, like, the feature film space, people would ask me what I do for a living, and I was like, I make short films.

Brian: 00:07:38

And like, oh, like YouTube?

Brian: 00:07:40

No, not like YouTube.

Brian: 00:07:41

So, we actually started distributing our short films to churches before YouTube.

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Skit Guys has, you know, a website, skitguys.com.

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It's a non profit ministry, and we distribute the films to other churches through that website, and through a few others.

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But that was really all it was, you know, they were out touring, they were out, going to all kinds of conferences, and, camps, and conventions, and people would connect with them and Connect back to the website.

Brian: 00:08:07

And then, before too long, probably the majority of the evangelical churches in America got screens in their sanctuaries.

Brian: 00:08:15

And so, it became a place for our ministry to partner with theirs, and to kind of bring, a different element of creativity, or some levity, or maybe talk about a subject in a way that, you know, the pastor would much rather we do than, he or she does.

Jaclyn: 00:08:30

Yeah, At least open the door, right?

Jaclyn: 00:08:33

Like, sometimes, that's what I find, media is so good for that, whether it be music, or sketches or whatever.

Jaclyn: 00:08:40

It's really good to start a conversation and open that door to where it's like, okay, now we can talk about this without having that awkward let's break the ice moment.

Brian: 00:08:49

Yep, absolutely.

Brian: 00:08:50

you know, one of the greatest secret weapons that we provide pastors, and we've actually heard this several times...

Brian: 00:08:56

you know, we don't put credits on our short films, because if it goes up in a church, we don't need to know who directed it.

Brian: 00:09:02

We don't need to know who wrote it.

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We don't need to know anything.

Brian: 00:09:05

We're there to resource the church.

Brian: 00:09:06

So, so many people who go to churches that use our content just think that Tommy and Eddie go to their church, they just haven't seen them yet.

Brian: 00:09:13

They think they're

Brian: 00:09:15

part of it.

Jaclyn: 00:09:16

Oh, that's funny.

Jaclyn: 00:09:17

I, always go to such small churches that I know they don't go there.

Brian: 00:09:21

Yeah.

Brian: 00:09:21

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:09:22

I know everyone in that place.

Brian: 00:09:24

Absolutely.

Brian: 00:09:24

Absolutely.

Brian: 00:09:25

So yeah, it's been fun to partner with pastors and partner with churches.

Brian: 00:09:29

Um, we've been doing that part of it...

Brian: 00:09:32

I think we started distributing comedies, like Father's Day and Mother's Day and Christmas comedies.

Brian: 00:09:37

We started doing that in like 2006.

Brian: 00:09:39

Um, No, I, the first thing I made with the skit guys, with Tommy and Eddie, was February 2005 and that went up on the website.

Brian: 00:09:49

So, yeah, since 2005.

Jaclyn: 00:09:52

That's awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:09:53

Well, congratulations.

Jaclyn: 00:09:54

That's, uh, an incredible opportunity and clearly it's been very impactful.

Jaclyn: 00:09:59

A lot of people, I actually, I don't know if I know any Christians that don't know who the Skid Guys are.

Jaclyn: 00:10:04

To be honest, like, it's just so well so well known.

Brian: 00:10:06

They're around.

Brian: 00:10:07

The Baptists love us.

Brian: 00:10:09

The Lutherans love us.

Brian: 00:10:11

If I haven't named your denomination, I'm sure you, you like and Ed too, but yeah, they're around for sure.

Brian: 00:10:17

For sure.

Jaclyn: 00:10:17

So, it's interesting, when you were talking about, like, you don't put credits on the videos, I actually was looking for the credits.

Jaclyn: 00:10:25

I remember years ago, before I decided to actually become a professional screenwriter, you know, I just wrote stuff for fun.

Jaclyn: 00:10:32

And So there were times where I was like, okay, well, I wrote this really cute skit.

Jaclyn: 00:10:35

I'm like, how do I get it to the skit guys?

Jaclyn: 00:10:37

they might like it.

Jaclyn: 00:10:38

I had no idea how, like, I'm looking for the credits.

Jaclyn: 00:10:41

I had no idea how any of it worked and I ended up just kind of giving up.

Jaclyn: 00:10:46

yeah, I mean, I understand that it does make sense that, in that particular scenario, uh, you don't want to make it that, when it's in a church, right?

Jaclyn: 00:10:56

You want to provide the, you know, here's the material, here's, the sketch and whatever.

Jaclyn: 00:11:00

And then, now the pastor can take it from there and, dive into something about the Bible and, you know, give credit to God.

Jaclyn: 00:11:07

But yeah, that's an interesting move and I'm glad that was an intentional decision.

Brian: 00:11:10

It's the same reason why we haven't put...

Brian: 00:11:12

if you like go and download a video off our website, we don't put skitguys.

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com even on it.

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Like we don't, we don't even brand it.

Brian: 00:11:19

Cause if you're sitting in church and, and the pastor is using one of our videos to kind of support something that they're talking about, we don't want you to think about skitguys.com.

Brian: 00:11:30

want you to be thinking about the message and listening to the guy up on stage, you know,?

Brian: 00:11:34

Or gal.

Brian: 00:11:35

not about that.

Brian: 00:11:36

Now, if we post it on, like, social media, yes, we put skitguys.

Brian: 00:11:40

com it, and then, you know, let's just say there might be some churches out there who just feel like since it's on social media, they can rip it off of that and then play it in their church service, which is fine.

Brian: 00:11:52

And in that case, yes, um, they'll see our website for the duration of the video.

Brian: 00:11:57

Oh now, now everybody's going to be watching.

Brian: 00:11:59

Whenever there's a Skit Guys video on it, their church, they're going to be like, is the website listed there?

Brian: 00:12:04

Cause I'll know where they got it if the web site's listed.

Brian: 00:12:06

It's stolen.

Brian: 00:12:08

yeah.

Brian: 00:12:08

If you see the web address when it's playing at your church, your pastor stole it.

Brian: 00:12:13

Sorry.

Brian: 00:12:15

So how did you move from doing the Skit Guys skits, the sketches to feature?

Brian: 00:12:20

'Cause that's a pretty big jump.

Brian: 00:12:22

Yeah, it's a huge jump.

Brian: 00:12:23

You're exactly right.

Brian: 00:12:24

Short films are very, very different than feature films.

Brian: 00:12:27

I wouldn't even call it like, comparing a kitchen remodel to building a full house.

Brian: 00:12:31

I would liken it to like, buying a new set of pots and pans to building a new house.

Brian: 00:12:36

Like, it is...

Jaclyn: 00:12:37

Right.

Jaclyn: 00:12:37

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:12:38

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:12:38

The degree of what you're dealing with.

Brian: 00:12:40

The domino effect of every decision you make in a feature film is massive...

Brian: 00:12:46

way more details.

Brian: 00:12:47

But, you know, it was a shared dream of ours, to make a movie.

Brian: 00:12:51

We wanted to make a great Christian movie...

Brian: 00:12:53

make a movie that was funny and told people about God, pointed people, in that direction and, more overtly than, some movies like, you know, where, Robert De Niro walks into a church and prays and asks God for help.

Brian: 00:13:06

You know, that is awesome.

Brian: 00:13:08

That is wonderful.

Brian: 00:13:09

I want to see that in every movie that I watch, you know?

Brian: 00:13:13

Where your lead character, does something that reveals the existence of God being as real as gravity is.

Brian: 00:13:20

That's really, really cool, and I love seeing that in movies, but we wanted to make a movie where we could, make people laugh, and if you make people laugh, you can make people listen.

Brian: 00:13:30

And so, we wanted to tell them about the thing that we think is, the most worth listening to, or most worthy of talking about at least.

Brian: 00:13:37

So it was a shared dream.

Brian: 00:13:39

We started, just in our free time outside of the ministry and, we started writing scripts.

Brian: 00:13:44

And so we started just devoting time to working out features.

Brian: 00:13:47

And we threw so many of them away.

Brian: 00:13:49

As you do

Jaclyn: 00:13:50

Oh Yeah.

Brian: 00:13:50

When you're first starting out you know?

Brian: 00:13:51

You know this.

Brian: 00:13:53

Don't ever make your first one, or your second one, or your one.

Brian: 00:13:56

Maybe you make those because you learn a lot of lessons, but not everyone is Orson Welles.

Brian: 00:14:00

You're not gonna make the greatest movie ever, your first time out of the gate.

Brian: 00:14:04

So we, threw a lot in the trash.

Brian: 00:14:06

And then, um, we had one that we felt like had really good teeth.

Brian: 00:14:10

And around the same time that we felt like we had a good draft of it, Bill Reeves, introduced himself to us.

Brian: 00:14:17

At the time he was running, WTA, uh, Working Title Agency.

Brian: 00:14:21

They had, been the, the agency representing the Kendricks books that came out with their movies.

Brian: 00:14:26

And they had started getting into some filmmaking and film marketing.

Brian: 00:14:30

They did like, Mom's Night Out and they did Woodlawn.

Brian: 00:14:33

Um,

Jaclyn: 00:14:33

Yeah I liked those ones

Brian: 00:14:35

Yeah, yeah, the, Irwin's, they make some great movies.

Brian: 00:14:37

So they reached out and they were like, Hey, have you guys ever thought about making a movie?

Brian: 00:14:41

And we were like, as a matter of fact, we script.

Brian: 00:14:44

Yeah.

Brian: 00:14:45

Mm So, you know, we went through that whole thing with them for almost two years of just like, What if we did this?

Brian: 00:14:53

What if the script did this?

Brian: 00:14:54

You know?

Brian: 00:14:54

Just trying to work alongside us and make something that from their perspective...

Brian: 00:14:58

they're a marketing agency and film funding company.

Brian: 00:15:01

So how can we make something, with a marketing mind to the beginning of it to make it commercially successful?

Brian: 00:15:08

And so, we kind of got all the way through that, did a budget and realized, Oh, this movie probably costs more than we want to spend.

Brian: 00:15:15

So we were all really disheartened and we walked out of the meeting and I said, guys, I'm gonna write Family Camp.

Brian: 00:15:24

It's the movie I really want to make, so, I'm gonna just lock myself in my office for a couple of weeks and write it.

Brian: 00:15:31

So, that's what I did.

Brian: 00:15:32

Ten days later, I had the first draft, and it was garbage.

Brian: 00:15:35

I mean, every first draft is garbage.

Jaclyn: 00:15:37

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:15:37

The

Jaclyn: 00:15:37

first draft's never the final draft.

Brian: 00:15:38

Don't ever make your first draft.

Brian: 00:15:40

So, obviously this isn't a beginner's podcast.

Brian: 00:15:43

People know you never make your first draft.

Brian: 00:15:45

Um, so, you know, many, many, many, many drafts later it clicked.

Brian: 00:15:50

And, In the meantime, WTA was acquired by Educational Media Foundation, which runs K Love and Air One.

Brian: 00:15:57

And so they came on board, and Provident Films, the Sony company, came on board.

Brian: 00:16:03

And they co financed the movie, and that was basically y how we got it

Jaclyn: 00:16:07

Wow.

Jaclyn: 00:16:08

I mean, I've heard it said that anytime a movie gets made, it is a miracle in and of itself.

Jaclyn: 00:16:13

So...

Jaclyn: 00:16:14

And then there's all these stories of, you know, just how things happened to come about along the way.

Jaclyn: 00:16:20

What I think is really neat is how, like the skit guys, obviously, they're known for their comedy.

Jaclyn: 00:16:27

They're also known for their depth.

Jaclyn: 00:16:30

Right?

Jaclyn: 00:16:30

Because there are some of those skits that, get into some, some deep subject matter, and, they approach it from an artistic angle, but, you know, you can have that range of getting into really deep conversations, but also just being hilarious.

Jaclyn: 00:16:47

And, so, is Family Camp along those lines too?

Brian: 00:16:51

Yeah, absolutely.

Brian: 00:16:52

Family Camp has the famous skit guys' one, two punch in it.

Brian: 00:16:55

Everything that we make, unless it's just a straight drama, we try to incorporate our three H's, which is heart, humor, and Him, and so Family Camp is no different.

Brian: 00:17:05

Family Camp starts out as a full on, Disney family comedy inside the Christian worldview.

Brian: 00:17:11

And then as it should, it kind of delves into the matters of the heart and, situations that families deal with, kids growing up and getting older, um, parents doing things that make them realize that they may have sinned against their kids and, trying to figure out how to, ask repentance for that.

Brian: 00:17:29

Getting distracted with things that aren't important, you know, and where does God fit into all that?

Brian: 00:17:34

That's, that's what family camp's about.

Jaclyn: 00:17:36

Awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:17:37

Yeah, for anybody listening who hasn't seen it yet, I encourage you to go watch it.

Jaclyn: 00:17:40

I will be watching it very soon.

Jaclyn: 00:17:42

It just hasn't been available in my area yet, but very soon.

Jaclyn: 00:17:46

And I am excited because I love the Skit Guys.

Jaclyn: 00:17:48

Anytime, like, sometimes when you're scrolling, you know, and the Skit Guys come up, I have to watch the whole thing.

Jaclyn: 00:17:53

I love it.

Jaclyn: 00:17:54

And the one where, you know, they're, um, chipping away, the chiseling, and...

Brian: 00:17:59

Mm hmm.

Brian: 00:17:59

God's Chisel.

Jaclyn: 00:18:00

It was a long time ago, but that one really, impacted me, because I was going through a lot at the time, and It kind of gave me a picture, which is what I needed to understand.

Jaclyn: 00:18:09

This is the process.

Jaclyn: 00:18:10

This is...

Jaclyn: 00:18:11

I'm supposed to be here right now.

Jaclyn: 00:18:13

Like this is part of it.

Jaclyn: 00:18:14

And so, yeah, I really appreciate that you and your team, whoever it is that you work with, I don't know because you don't have credits, but everybody that's involved, I appreciate the depth of heart that you bring to it and the ability to use art to be able to talk about things that aren't always easy to talk about.

Brian: 00:18:33

Yeah, God's Chisel is one of the oldest skits they do.

Brian: 00:18:37

It's definitely on their greatest hits list.

Brian: 00:18:39

And it's a really great message for folks in this industry.

Brian: 00:18:42

I mean, I think everyone can relate to the idea of the constant grind, the self doubt, and just waiting for your shot to punch through.

Brian: 00:18:53

Waiting to meet the right people.

Brian: 00:18:55

Waiting to find the right collaborators.

Brian: 00:18:57

It just seems like you're always, waiting and, and has God forgotten about you?

Brian: 00:19:02

I mean, how many times have you thought about that in relation to your job?

Brian: 00:19:07

The great thing about, skits like God's Chisel is it reminds us that we are a constant piece of art, that God is shaping and constantly molding.

Brian: 00:19:16

He's not done with us.

Brian: 00:19:18

The Bible says that we are, God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.

Brian: 00:19:23

And, if, you have, you know, eight minutes, I think maybe eight, ten minutes long, it's a great little way to center yourself and remind yourself That God doesn't leave you, doesn't forsake you, and sometimes the pain of the chisel is a little painful.

Brian: 00:19:38

Yeah.

Brian: 00:19:39

Yeah, it is.

Brian: 00:19:40

But, you know, I think sometimes as artists, we forget that we are also part of his art.

Brian: 00:19:46

You know, we forget to be part of the creation, not just the person who is creating.

Brian: 00:19:52

So yeah, it's, a good word.

Brian: 00:19:52

I'm, glad we got into that today.

Brian: 00:19:54

Um, we're about to finish this portion of the interview, and I just want to give you an opportunity to say any last words for our listeners before we head into the members only portion.

Brian: 00:20:04

Yeah!

Brian: 00:20:05

go watch Family Camp.

Brian: 00:20:07

if you're in the States, you can watch it on Amazon Prime.

Brian: 00:20:09

If you're in Canada, it's on Netflix, and uh, beyond that, It's on a streamer, I just don't know which one.

Brian: 00:20:15

But it's, pretty much everywhere, so if you search for it, you can find it.

Jaclyn: 00:20:18

Awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:20:19

Thank you so much.

Brian: 00:20:20

Thanks!