Mastering Your Craft: Directing Tips with Brian Cates

Jaclyn: 00:00:00

Welcome to the members only portion of the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast.

Jaclyn: 00:00:04

My name is Jaclyn Whitt, and today I have Brian Cates with me.

Jaclyn: 00:00:07

And we're going to talk more about stuff that he has figured out and learned over the years.

Jaclyn: 00:00:12

So, I wanna start by asking

Jaclyn: 00:00:14

you

Brian: 00:00:14

So much.

Brian: 00:00:14

I have so much figured out.

Brian: 00:00:17

Let me tell you guys,.

Jaclyn: 00:00:18

There you go, you have already like, done stuff.

Brian: 00:00:19

Everyone take a knee.

Brian: 00:00:20

Everyone take a knee.

Brian: 00:00:22

Oh gosh.

Jaclyn: 00:00:22

OK.

Jaclyn: 00:00:23

You tell me, what do people need to know?

Brian: 00:00:26

You know, something I talked about in the main podcast, Being given a time slot.

Brian: 00:00:32

It's so important, you know, no one just walks out their door and makes a movie, no one just walks out their door and is great at something.

Brian: 00:00:40

You have to spend the time to master your craft, right?

Brian: 00:00:44

I talked about kind of like when I was a kid, my youth pastor gave me a time slot.

Brian: 00:00:47

I had a weekly deadline.

Brian: 00:00:49

I had an audience, a captive audience that I had to think about and know who I'm writing for.

Brian: 00:00:55

and so there was a lot of accountability there.

Jaclyn: 00:00:57

Mm hmm.

Jaclyn: 00:00:58

Sounds like it.

Brian: 00:00:58

And I also just...

Brian: 00:00:59

I loved being able to show off what I could do.

Brian: 00:01:02

So, you know, you got that immediate feedback.

Brian: 00:01:04

You got the laughter.

Brian: 00:01:05

You got...

Brian: 00:01:06

I was never making dramatic stuff for the youth group, so it was always a laugh.

Brian: 00:01:09

You know, you're always going for the laugh.

Brian: 00:01:11

So, you know, nowadays we have YouTube.

Brian: 00:01:14

We have Instagram.

Brian: 00:01:16

We have TikTok,.

Brian: 00:01:16

We have these venues where you could give yourself a time slot, if you had a captive audience.

Brian: 00:01:22

But, the way that I would encourage folks wanting to kind of master their craft is figure out how you can do something...

Brian: 00:01:29

If it's your main job, even better.

Brian: 00:01:31

If you can actually get paid for it, even better.

Brian: 00:01:34

Figure out how you can get an accountable method, a time slot, weekly, Or bi weekly, or monthly, where you can make something that will allow you to fail, allow you to learn, allow you to try something different, and then you can get feedback for it.

Brian: 00:01:54

There's a guy, there's a kid, he's in his 20s.

Brian: 00:01:57

He's on Facebook.

Brian: 00:01:58

I found him in one of these Christian filmmaker groups.

Brian: 00:02:00

And like, every two weeks maybe ?...he does it all the time.

Brian: 00:02:05

He and his mom make dialogue scenes.

Jaclyn: 00:02:09

Like, record them?

Brian: 00:02:10

They just...

Brian: 00:02:10

They write them, they hire real actors, they spend their own money...

Brian: 00:02:15

They write dialogue scenes together.

Brian: 00:02:17

They're great dialogue scenes.

Brian: 00:02:20

He is a cinematographer, she's a writer, director.

Brian: 00:02:23

Mother / son, and they're good.

Brian: 00:02:25

They're actually really good.

Brian: 00:02:27

And he just started posting them to one of the Christian filmmakers Facebook groups.

Brian: 00:02:32

And so he created a time slot.

Brian: 00:02:34

He created an accountable method by doing it with his mom, you know, uh, they're just paying for it out of whatever they have, but it's their official hobby.

Brian: 00:02:42

They make these really great dialogue scenes.

Brian: 00:02:44

Usually there's just two actors having a conversation, and they're good.

Brian: 00:02:49

They're doing genre work.

Brian: 00:02:51

You know, they all can't be shot in the same location, so they're learning about, how to use the network they have to find locations.

Brian: 00:02:56

They don't want them to look the same, so they're learning about costuming.

Brian: 00:03:00

They're learning about all the different departments, by doing it themselves, and, the best filmmakers know a lot about what all their collaborators do.

Brian: 00:03:09

So they can speak the same language as them.

Brian: 00:03:11

So getting out there and doing it yourself, and failing and making mistakes is, is really the way to do it.

Brian: 00:03:17

I was lucky that, you know, I got my time slot in high school and in college.

Brian: 00:03:23

And then while I was in college, I got a job at a church that paid me to make short films.

Brian: 00:03:28

We made like announcement videos and things like that too, but by and large we were making illustration videos for Sunday morning.

Brian: 00:03:35

So I had a time slot that paid me like a teacher's salary, an Oklahoma teacher's salary, to do it.

Brian: 00:03:40

But It was great.

Brian: 00:03:41

I got to learn.

Brian: 00:03:42

I was there learning.

Brian: 00:03:44

News stations are a great way to do this, especially if you can get on digital side of things and make something that has a little more cinematic bent to it.

Brian: 00:03:50

That's a great 40 hour a week job, to learn, how to work a camera, and how to work sound, and how to light someone.

Brian: 00:03:56

Find your time slot.

Brian: 00:03:58

Mmm.

Jaclyn: 00:03:59

Mm hmm.

Jaclyn: 00:04:00

Yeah, no, that's a really good point.

Jaclyn: 00:04:02

I used to teach fitness classes and I used to tell people, like, you've got to put it on your calendar or it just won't happen.

Jaclyn: 00:04:08

Like, actually putting it on your calendar, like you say, like a time slot, that makes all the difference because if it's just something where it's like one day I'm going to do this, You may never it done.

Jaclyn: 00:04:21

It's gonna be one of those things that's always pushed back.

Jaclyn: 00:04:23

But when you put it on the calendar and you say, this is when this happens, you are that much more likely to actually accomplish that.

Brian: 00:04:31

Yeah, and you know, one thing that I'm sure is painfully obvious to everyone, but I just didn't even really notice it for a while, but everyone who's really good at what they do in this industry, They are go getters.

Brian: 00:04:44

They, they do not sit around and wait for it to come to them.

Brian: 00:04:48

They make it happen.

Brian: 00:04:50

And so, you know, as you get on bigger and bigger projects, you're surrounded by alpha dogs.

Brian: 00:04:56

You're surrounded by people who can hold their own.

Brian: 00:04:58

You're surrounded by people who go and make their own movie.

Brian: 00:05:00

And so, those are the people that make it, and you don't want to be around all those people, maybe it's not the industry for you, but, that really is kind of the common denominator with successful people in this industry.

Jaclyn: 00:05:11

yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:05:12

That, and people that refuse to give up, because I know when I studying screenwriting, there's a couple things that stood out to me.

Jaclyn: 00:05:18

One was, it's not the most talented person that makes it, it's the person that doesn't give up.

Jaclyn: 00:05:23

Right?

Jaclyn: 00:05:24

person that just keeps working.

Jaclyn: 00:05:25

They're the ones make it in the industry.

Brian: 00:05:27

You know, never giving up provides more opportunities for you to learn.

Brian: 00:05:32

And so, um, if you give up, you'll stop learning that which you were trying to achieve.

Brian: 00:05:37

So Yeah.

Brian: 00:05:37

You're just gonna get better.

Jaclyn: 00:05:38

And the 10, 000 hours thing, you know, they say to be an expert, you got to put in 10, 000 hours.

Jaclyn: 00:05:44

Well, who's putting in the 10, 000 hours?

Jaclyn: 00:05:47

You know, like I used to play instruments when I was growing up.

Jaclyn: 00:05:49

I was a musician and there were certain instruments that it was easier to learn because it wasn't as complicated as some of the other ones.

Jaclyn: 00:05:56

And so I used to recommend, well, do this instrument instead of that one because, uh, you'll sound better faster, so you won't give up as easily you know?

Jaclyn: 00:06:04

Like I gave up on violin, because I wasn't good at it right away, but trumpet, I ran with it, you know?

Jaclyn: 00:06:09

So, just certain instruments, right?

Jaclyn: 00:06:11

But I think it's that way with anything.

Jaclyn: 00:06:13

If you quit the things that are hard right away, and maybe it takes a long time to actually get any good at it, well, maybe it's not for you, but maybe it just means that you actually have to put the time in, and that's just what it requires.

Brian: 00:06:26

Sure, sure.

Brian: 00:06:27

I think, with everything, we have to evaluate ourselves honestly.

Brian: 00:06:31

You know, I am never going to be a professional athlete.

Brian: 00:06:35

I'm not inclined that way.

Brian: 00:06:36

My brain doesn't think that way.

Brian: 00:06:38

I'm not interested.

Brian: 00:06:39

But if you are interested in that, but you don't check all the other boxes, you still at the end of the day have to be honest with yourself and go, okay, am I at a disproportionate disadvantage compared to everyone else around me?

Brian: 00:06:51

Evaluating yourself, going, okay, yeah.

Brian: 00:06:54

I know I can keep going.

Brian: 00:06:56

I know I have it in me not to give up, but am I really built for this?

Brian: 00:07:00

That's a question we have to ask ourselves, too, and we have to be honest.

Brian: 00:07:03

A very important part to couple with " Never give up".

Jaclyn: 00:07:07

Yeah, exactly.

Jaclyn: 00:07:08

And, like an illustration, since we're all artists here, one of the ways to kind of picture it is that, you know, from here to my end goal that God has for me, I'm not going to walk straight there.

Jaclyn: 00:07:18

I'm going to meander while I figure it out along the way.

Jaclyn: 00:07:21

And so, some directions I'm going to have to turn and be like, no, actually that's not the right direction, I got to head back.

Jaclyn: 00:07:27

And then I, I might overcorrect and, so I'm going to eventually get there, but it's not going to be a straight line.

Brian: 00:07:34

Exactly.

Brian: 00:07:35

Exactly yeah, you'll look back and see, oh, wow, that led me here?

Brian: 00:07:40

Holy cow, I did not see that coming.

Brian: 00:07:42

I the line would be a lot more straight.

Brian: 00:07:44

Yeah, exactly.

Jaclyn: 00:07:45

And we can learn from anything, honestly, like nothing is wasted, right?

Jaclyn: 00:07:49

Even if we ended up going in a direction for a time that we thought this is the right direction and we're pushing, I'm not going to give up.

Jaclyn: 00:07:55

And then we decide, you know, actually I need to go a different direction.

Jaclyn: 00:07:59

Nothing is wasted from that experience.

Jaclyn: 00:08:01

There's always something that you can take from it, learn from it, grow from it and apply to something else that you're doing.

Brian: 00:08:07

Agreed.

Brian: 00:08:08

Agreed.

Brian: 00:08:09

Um, should we do some director tips?

Brian: 00:08:12

I am a director.

Jaclyn: 00:08:13

Let's do it

Jaclyn: 00:08:14

Okay

Jaclyn: 00:08:14

'Cause I don't know anything about directing.

Brian: 00:08:16

Oh, yes you do.

Brian: 00:08:18

You give all the words on the page.

Brian: 00:08:22

I can't do my job without you.

Brian: 00:08:24

I cannot do my job without you.

Brian: 00:08:26

Um, okay.

Brian: 00:08:27

So I know a lot of directors talk about faster / slower.

Brian: 00:08:32

And, some even say, Oh, that's lazy direction, if you just tell them faster / slower.

Brian: 00:08:38

Faster / slower gives you lot's of options.

Brian: 00:08:40

So when you're working with your talent and you're collaborating with them, they can always, always go faster.

Brian: 00:08:46

And I, think, a lot of, first time or, directors who, don't have a lot of stuff under their belt, they're not listening for the pace at which their scene is going.

Brian: 00:08:56

And, my advice would be to you, you can always, always, always go faster.

Brian: 00:09:01

The audience has very quick ears.

Brian: 00:09:04

They hear everything so quickly and dramatic scenes do not need the beats your collaborators want to give them.

Brian: 00:09:11

It doesn't take a lot to change the pace, especially if you're going at a good clip.

Brian: 00:09:16

But here's what I would say: a really experienced actor will not change the tone of the scene by going faster.

Brian: 00:09:25

Your less experienced actors, the speed will get the best of them, and the tone of the scene will shift.

Brian: 00:09:31

You just need to watch for that.

Brian: 00:09:33

Faster / slower doesn't always fix things.

Brian: 00:09:36

If your actor doesn't have a lot of years under their belt, it'll actually make things worse.

Brian: 00:09:39

So, you definitely, definitely need watch for that.

Brian: 00:09:43

That's been probably the biggest thing I'm trying to hone in the last couple of years is like, how to mitigate scenes kind of changing their direction just by, just by changing the pacing, depending on who we're working with.

Jaclyn: 00:09:54

Yeah, The director is the one that's seeing the vision from above and not just each individual character.

Jaclyn: 00:10:00

Like how does it look on the screen?

Jaclyn: 00:10:03

And so yeah, I guess I like what you're saying about when you collaborate with your talent, because It really is a collaboration.

Jaclyn: 00:10:10

And I appreciate that you word it that way, because the actors bring what they can bring, and the director is, is working with that, right?

Brian: 00:10:18

Yeah, absolutely.

Brian: 00:10:19

um, another thing, and this isn't my tip.

Brian: 00:10:23

This comes directly from the man himself, Mr.

Brian: 00:10:25

Spielberg.

Brian: 00:10:26

So I heard this, recently, and I was totally blown away by it, and so I'm gonna pass the tip on from him, I'm going to give you permission, directors out there, to give your actors line readings.

Brian: 00:10:41

" You don't read the line for the actor".

Brian: 00:10:42

"You don't tell them how you want it".

Brian: 00:10:43

Well, here's the caveat.

Brian: 00:10:45

Children only.

Brian: 00:10:46

Don't read a line for an adult, but for a kid, Spielberg never lets his kid actors rehearse with their parents.

Brian: 00:10:53

Because parents will rehearse with them.

Brian: 00:10:55

They'll get the idea for how the scene's supposed to go, they'll get it totally stuck in their head and they can't get it out.

Brian: 00:11:01

Well, the reason why kid actors are so great at what they do, is because they've learned to, well, to be little parrots.

Brian: 00:11:07

They see how grown ups act.

Brian: 00:11:09

They see, um, what they do, and they're able to mirror it.

Brian: 00:11:12

So, if you do that for them on the day...

Brian: 00:11:17

If they're a kid actor and they're in your movie, they're gonna be really good at parroting, really good at mirroring what you do.

Brian: 00:11:22

So if you as a director feel confident in your performance skill, and you know exactly the way you want it to be read, do it for the kid on the day.

Brian: 00:11:31

Have an agreement with them ahead of time.

Brian: 00:11:33

Just say, Hey, you know, with my kid actors, this is how we do it.

Brian: 00:11:37

I'm sorry we don't allow rehearsals ahead of time.

Brian: 00:11:39

We work on it on the day.

Brian: 00:11:41

And, I'll see kind of what you do, but then all my direction after that is going to be, Do it like I do it.

Brian: 00:11:47

And he gets great.

Brian: 00:11:48

Performances from his kids

Brian: 00:11:50

doing it that way.

Brian: 00:11:51

Pretty crazy that the

Brian: 00:11:52

big man himself does it that way.

Jaclyn: 00:11:54

Well, it takes a lot of the guesswork out, which I think is important for kids.

Jaclyn: 00:11:58

And, you know, it's interesting, like you're saying kids only, not adults.

Jaclyn: 00:12:01

Because with the kids, you're expecting them to understand something and do something that maybe they don't actually have any frame of reference for or experience with.

Jaclyn: 00:12:10

So, you know, you are, actually helping them.

Jaclyn: 00:12:13

You're helping them to achieve greatnesss.

Brian: 00:12:15

That is just it.

Brian: 00:12:17

See, you knew, you have director's intuition.

Brian: 00:12:19

Um, when you give direction to an adult actor, they're pulling from a life of experience.

Brian: 00:12:25

And something hopefully that, when the director gives you those hints, your experiences, you know, they're going side by side, and you're informed by the same set of life experiences

Brian: 00:12:34

. Kids don't have that.

Brian: 00:12:36

Kids don't have those life experiences.

Jaclyn: 00:12:37

And it's unfair to expect them to.

Brian: 00:12:39

100%.

Brian: 00:12:40

Exactly.

Brian: 00:12:41

They are there because they're really good at mirroring, so just mirror them.

Brian: 00:12:46

Just give them the mirror and they'll do great.

Jaclyn: 00:12:48

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:12:49

And they

Jaclyn: 00:12:49

love, the attention, right?

Jaclyn: 00:12:50

Like that's me when I was a kid.

Jaclyn: 00:12:52

And I'm guessing you, when you were a kid, you know, just loved attention.

Jaclyn: 00:12:57

And so if it's like, okay, I get to have the attention as long as I do it the way you tell me to, I'm in.

Brian: 00:13:04

One last thing, I'll shut up after this and this might be obvious, but newer directors, it's great.

Brian: 00:13:10

If you're working with really seasoned talent, like talent you know has done preparation, they come and their page is memorized.

Brian: 00:13:18

They're ready to go.

Brian: 00:13:19

They come with ideas.

Brian: 00:13:21

If an actor comes with ideas on the day, you know that they've done preparation.

Brian: 00:13:25

If you have an actor like that, do not rehearse.

Brian: 00:13:28

Just let them roll the camera.

Brian: 00:13:31

You know, do a blocking rehearsal so they know where to go and they know where camera's gonna be, but let them get out what they came to prepare first, because, I mean, so many times it's gonna be better than how you thought the scene should go.

Jaclyn: 00:13:44

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:13:44

Especially

Jaclyn: 00:13:45

the experienced actors.

Brian: 00:13:46

Yeah.

Brian: 00:13:46

The experienced actors.

Brian: 00:13:48

If you've worked with them before, you'll know, you'll know if they can do it or not.

Brian: 00:13:53

sYou've een their IMDB page, you know what they've done.

Brian: 00:13:55

You've seen their real, you know what they can do.

Brian: 00:13:57

And the conversations...

Brian: 00:13:58

You'll know, you'll know how they're preparing.

Brian: 00:14:01

You'll know what they've brought with them.

Brian: 00:14:03

Um, you'll get a sense for it, But yeah, speaking into it too much too early through a rehearsal, a real rehearsal, it may not be helpful.

Brian: 00:14:10

I understand it's really important for some specific scenes to get rehearsal in early because, you know, there's some really complicated blocking or, there's something that you have some really deep personal connection to and you...

Brian: 00:14:21

you want to make sure that for the sake of your own art, that your experience and your life history, whatever that is, is conveyed on screen so that you'll be fulfilled.

Brian: 00:14:31

Great, do a rehearsal.

Brian: 00:14:33

And there's probably many other reasons, but, but let those really experienced actors do their jobs and, and then figure out how you can elevate it, if you can.

Brian: 00:14:42

You may not be able to.

Brian: 00:14:44

You may just be able to say, Great, let's move on.

Brian: 00:14:47

That just bought us a lot of time to do that shot you really wanted to do at the end of the day.

Jaclyn: 00:14:51

Awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:14:52

Thank you so much.

Jaclyn: 00:14:53

That is such great advice.

Jaclyn: 00:14:54

And, I've really appreciated getting to know you.

Jaclyn: 00:14:57

And like I said, I've been waiting for a long time to be able to have a conversation with you.

Jaclyn: 00:15:01

So I've enjoyed this.

Brian: 00:15:03

And because we don't have credits, you didn't even know who I was.

Jaclyn: 00:15:06

That's right.

Jaclyn: 00:15:06

I had no clue.

Brian: 00:15:09

Well, cool.

Brian: 00:15:09

I'm glad we got to connect, Jaclyn.

Brian: 00:15:11

Have me back anytime.

Jaclyn: 00:15:12

Awesome.

Jaclyn: 00:15:13

Will do.

Jaclyn: 00:15:14

God bless.

Brian: 00:15:14

You too.