Crowdfunding and Networking with Christopher Shawn Shaw

Geoff: 00:00:00

We're back with Christopher Shawn Shaw in this second half of our interview today, our members portion.

Geoff: 00:00:05

And we had a great conversation in the earlier half of the interview and learned a lot about Christopher Shawn Shaw and his work and what he's doing these days, but we're back to hear more.

Geoff: 00:00:16

Some great advice, some tips and tricks, and one of the things we want to talk about...

Geoff: 00:00:21

we learned that he has some experience with crowdfunding.

Geoff: 00:00:25

I know it's fairly common these days in the filmmaking world, independent filmmaking, but no doubt some listeners who haven't had personal experience may be interested in trying it out in the near future.

Geoff: 00:00:36

Tell us about your experience.

Geoff: 00:00:38

What's it like?

Geoff: 00:00:39

How's it worked for you?

Christopher: 00:00:40

It's kind of like a full time job.

Geoff: 00:00:43

Yeah?

Christopher: 00:00:44

So, yeah.

Christopher: 00:00:45

So I don't know if this misnomer is still out there around crowdfunding, but I think there at least used to be this idea that, Hey, if I get a crowdfunding campaign up, I'll raise the money.

Christopher: 00:00:55

Oh, no, no, no, no . I mean, that...

Christopher: 00:00:57

does that ever happen?

Christopher: 00:00:58

Of course.

Christopher: 00:00:59

Maybe .01 percent of the time, or something, that might happen.

Christopher: 00:01:04

Yeah.

Christopher: 00:01:05

Mm hmm.

Christopher: 00:01:06

You need to get eyeballs on it.

Christopher: 00:01:07

so, there are some tips and tricks I've learned along the way, and Some of it's through research and other is just stuff I sort of learned on my own.

Christopher: 00:01:16

So there's a whole strategy to crowdfunding that I haven't even followed to the T yet myself in all the ventures I've done with crowdfunding, but they really say that, you want to have a good solid, like six months of prep leading up to the launch of the crowdfunding.

Christopher: 00:01:34

And yeah, for multiple reasons, here's one of the reasons: There's something called a soft launch and a hard launch.

Christopher: 00:01:40

launch.

Christopher: 00:01:41

The soft launch is the first few days of your campaign.

Christopher: 00:01:44

Maybe three to five days of your campaign is the soft launch.

Christopher: 00:01:48

The hard launch is after that.

Christopher: 00:01:50

Let me explain.

Christopher: 00:01:51

Part of, not the only thing you're doing, but part of during that six month ramp up to the launch date, is you're reaching out to individual select people, asking them for a pledge to participate in the soft launch.

Geoff: 00:02:07

Okay.

Christopher: 00:02:08

Because what so many people do is they'll launch a crowdfunding campaign and be like, here it is.

Christopher: 00:02:13

And then when all the eyeballs hit it, there's a big fat 0 dollars raised staring at you.

Geoff: 00:02:20

I get it.

Christopher: 00:02:21

Statistically and psychologically, that doesn't entice somebody to want to donate.

Geoff: 00:02:27

Right.

Geoff: 00:02:27

I get it.

Christopher: 00:02:27

Especially the more money you're asking for, so...

Christopher: 00:02:30

There's people who like, put out like, we're trying to raise 100, 000.

Christopher: 00:02:34

Big fat zero.

Christopher: 00:02:36

How likely are you to contribute to a 100, 000 campaign

Christopher: 00:02:40

when it's hardly raised any money, if any at all?

Christopher: 00:02:43

Not likely at all.

Christopher: 00:02:45

So, here's the stat.

Christopher: 00:02:47

At least this is what the stat used to be.

Christopher: 00:02:49

Like you said, crowdfunding is common.

Christopher: 00:02:52

Back when it first started, it was kind of a novelty and people were like, Oh, like it kind of had a buzz around it and like, Oh, you got a crowdfunding campaign.

Christopher: 00:02:59

Now it seems like everybody and their brother and sister and dog has a crowdfunding campaign.

Christopher: 00:03:04

So it is kind of oversaturated, which makes these points that I'm saying all the more important.

Christopher: 00:03:10

So part of the ramping up is you're asking for pre pledges for the soft launch, and you will be surprised.

Christopher: 00:03:16

at how many times you pick up the phone and call somebody directly and say...

Christopher: 00:03:20

and explain that.

Christopher: 00:03:21

Just say, Hey, we're doing a soft launch.

Christopher: 00:03:23

We would love to raise a third of our campaign ask during the first few days of our campaign before we go into the hard launch, which is, this is where we blast it out to everybody and their brother and sister and their dog.

Christopher: 00:03:37

Like everybody sees it.

Christopher: 00:03:38

Because then those eyeballs will see there's traction on it because we've reached out to you first.

Christopher: 00:03:44

And asked, can you commit to contributing a hundred dollars on such and such date?

Christopher: 00:03:50

You will be surprised at how many people say, "'yeah, I can do that".

Geoff: 00:03:55

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:03:56

That is amazing.

Christopher: 00:03:57

And then you, send them that link on the date.

Christopher: 00:03:59

And then ideally you've reached out to many, many people who have promised to pledge whatever the number is you're asking for.

Christopher: 00:04:07

If you're asking for 25, great.

Christopher: 00:04:09

If you're asking for 250, great.

Christopher: 00:04:10

If you're asking for a thousand, great.

Christopher: 00:04:11

Whatever that number is, you have a specific ask, and if they say, Oh, I, I'd love to help, but I can't do that.

Christopher: 00:04:19

Well, what amount could you give for our soft launch.

Geoff: 00:04:22

Hmm.

Geoff: 00:04:22

Mm Mm hmm.

Christopher: 00:04:23

And then let them pick the number.

Christopher: 00:04:25

But you start out with something in mind, so it's a direct ask.

Christopher: 00:04:29

That's the other thing about things like this is...

Christopher: 00:04:32

not just money, just in general, a lot of times people don't receive what they're looking for because they don't ask.

Geoff: 00:04:37

Right.

Christopher: 00:04:38

...clearly and directly.

Christopher: 00:04:39

And it's not super comfortable to ask sometimes, clearly and directly, but without that direct ask, you might not get what you're hoping to achieve.

Christopher: 00:04:49

And again, that's above and beyond money.

Christopher: 00:04:51

You know, it's resources or whatever.

Christopher: 00:04:53

So you prepare for the soft launch.

Christopher: 00:04:56

So there's that.

Christopher: 00:04:56

The other thing you want to do, um, I like to tell people...

Christopher: 00:04:59

for example, I talked with probably the main people involved in these campaigns I have now, because I was kind of brought on to the project.

Christopher: 00:05:08

And it was, more of a passion project for them per se.

Christopher: 00:05:11

And they had the connections Like for example, Nikki's project.

Christopher: 00:05:14

There's people that she's helped.

Christopher: 00:05:16

She's helped thousands of people who have been victims.

Christopher: 00:05:20

So she has those connections.

Christopher: 00:05:22

I don't.

Christopher: 00:05:23

I don't have her story and I don't have her speaking engagements and I don't have her connections to the victims she's helped.

Christopher: 00:05:29

So you want to leverage your connections, in a healthy way, of course, but you want to leverage your connections to get the word out.

Christopher: 00:05:36

So you're doing two things during that ramp up period to the launch, to the soft launch.

Christopher: 00:05:41

You're asking for pre pledges, and then you also have an alternate list of people.

Christopher: 00:05:46

So I tell people like, go through your email contacts, go through your phone contacts and make a couple of different lists.

Christopher: 00:05:52

Make lists of people that you think might be able to contribute money.

Christopher: 00:05:57

And don't overthink that list, by the way, because you will be surprised at the people who can do more than you think they can do.

Geoff: 00:06:05

Right.

Christopher: 00:06:06

I was on the phone a couple of times and it was so, like, it was so easy.

Christopher: 00:06:10

And I thought for sure, like, this person's not gonna say yes to a hundred bucks.

Christopher: 00:06:14

Like, yeah, I can do that.

Christopher: 00:06:15

So, so there's that, but the other list you want to make is, okay, these people have explicitly told you or you know for a fact they don't have any money and they can't contribute whatsoever, but they like you, and they like what you're doing, and they'd be willing to share the campaign.

Christopher: 00:06:33

Make that list.

Christopher: 00:06:34

And again, don't overthink who can and can't give money.

Christopher: 00:06:37

I'm talking about people you know for a fact, 100%, no question, because they've told you.

Christopher: 00:06:44

I don't got a dime to my name.

Christopher: 00:06:46

You know what I mean?

Geoff: 00:06:47

Yep.

Christopher: 00:06:47

They probably still have social media, at least facebook, and they can probably share your crowdfunding campaign.

Christopher: 00:06:54

And then of course that list can overlap with the people who've contributed because they have stake in the game now.

Christopher: 00:07:00

They like it enough to contribute.

Christopher: 00:07:02

So they're your sharers as well.

Christopher: 00:07:04

So those are the two main lists, the people who can potentially contribute and the sharers.

Christopher: 00:07:09

And obviously the people who can potentially contribute can also be sharers.

Christopher: 00:07:13

So you're building up those two lists of people, up to the soft launch.

Christopher: 00:07:17

You do the soft launch, you reach out to the pre pledgers.

Christopher: 00:07:21

Hopefully you get a third of what you're asking for.

Christopher: 00:07:24

And then statistically speaking, and this stat may have changed.

Christopher: 00:07:28

I don't know, but several years ago, at least, the stat was if you've raised a third of your campaign ask when it goes out there to the masses, you're something like 80 plus percent more likely to raise the full amount you're asking for, because those eyeballs look at your campaign and see that it has traction.

Christopher: 00:07:46

And therefore, I mean, the old saying money attracts money.

Christopher: 00:07:50

So that's a huge tip.

Christopher: 00:07:51

Just like it takes a village to make a film, like practically speaking to like, be on set and make the film, and post production and all that.

Christopher: 00:08:00

You kind of need an army surrounding you in the crowdfunding phase.

Christopher: 00:08:04

So build that army.

Christopher: 00:08:06

Don't rely on just yourself.

Christopher: 00:08:07

If you rely on just yourself, it'll be a full time job.

Geoff: 00:08:11

Really good tips.

Christopher: 00:08:12

One more tip real quick.

Christopher: 00:08:14

And I'm not kidding when I say this,

Christopher: 00:08:16

I've raised more individual chunks of money crowdfunding doing what I'm about to tell you right now...

Christopher: 00:08:23

like, you'll be amazed at how much this works.

Christopher: 00:08:26

You go on Facebook, or you go on LinkedIn, on Facebook, it shows you the green dot of who's on.

Geoff: 00:08:33

Yep.

Christopher: 00:08:33

You say, Hey, I just want to share what so and so and I are up Like if I'm working with Thor or something.

Christopher: 00:08:38

Like I want to show you what Thor Ramsey and I are up to.

Christopher: 00:08:41

What do you think?

Christopher: 00:08:42

And then you link your crowdfunding campaign, which has a video.

Christopher: 00:08:46

I mean, that's the other key thing.

Christopher: 00:08:48

You, you gotta have a quality, catchy video with your crowdfunding campaign.

Christopher: 00:08:52

If you have that and you have a link to it, then you say, Hey, what do you think?

Christopher: 00:08:58

And, and one on one, one on one, this is where it takes a long time.

Christopher: 00:09:03

You send that to your Facebook connections and your LinkedIn connections and your Twitter connections one on one and you gauge their response and you respond accordingly.

Christopher: 00:09:14

That's the part that takes a really long time, but it is worth it.

Christopher: 00:09:18

I have had 500 dollar contributions that way.

Christopher: 00:09:21

I've had a thousand dollar contributions that way.

Christopher: 00:09:24

And these are from people I've never met.

Christopher: 00:09:27

Some of whom I've never spoken to.

Christopher: 00:09:30

They're just Facebook friends, and maybe they're familiar with my work Maybe they're not.

Christopher: 00:09:34

They thought the crowdfunding campaign video was cute or whatever.

Christopher: 00:09:37

I mean if you can...

Christopher: 00:09:38

again, Comedy helps a lot.

Christopher: 00:09:39

if you can bring some levity to your campaign, even if it's for a drama.

Christopher: 00:09:43

If there's some way you can bring some levity to it, and make it unique and stand out and memorable, That helps, too.

Christopher: 00:09:51

And you gauge their response and respond accordingly.

Christopher: 00:09:54

And if they can't contribute personally, you ask them to share it.

Geoff: 00:09:58

Mm hmm.

Christopher: 00:09:59

And then you got somebody else who shared it, on top of the list that you were building for six months leading up to the soft launch.

Geoff: 00:10:05

Very interesting.

Geoff: 00:10:06

Such great advice, and you know, I never really thought of this soft launch idea.

Geoff: 00:10:11

haven't been involved in crowdfunding or had opportunity or reason to do a lot of research on it.

Geoff: 00:10:18

But it reminds me, For authors, for example, uh, they get pre sales.

Geoff: 00:10:23

And the more pre sales they have on launch day means the bigger launch they have, which may make them a best seller, as opposed to the people who happen to purchase it on that day for finding out about it for the first time.

Geoff: 00:10:37

So it's, it's strategy.

Christopher: 00:10:38

Yeah.

Christopher: 00:10:39

Pre orders is a good author, approach.

Christopher: 00:10:42

The other approach...

Christopher: 00:10:43

Thor Ramsey, Thor Ramsey's a novelist as well, um, and he did something where he sent out, like, to a hundred different people a Kindle version of his novel, for them to, like, write a review, because writing a review is big as well.

Christopher: 00:10:56

So, again, you're surrounding yourself with people you know, people who like you, et cetera, et cetera, or sometimes people you don't know, but they like the project...

Christopher: 00:11:05

there's something about the project that resonates with them or they thought it was clever or funny or whatever, Then you build that army around you and off to the races.

Geoff: 00:11:13

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:11:14

And, it's the same with, um, a lot of things, podcasts.

Geoff: 00:11:17

If you find a new podcast and you see that it has, uh, 200 episodes behind it, you gonna assume it's a good podcast.

Geoff: 00:11:26

It's been around a while.

Geoff: 00:11:28

And if you find that it's got 22 episodes and the last one was four years ago.

Geoff: 00:11:33

You might not, you know, might not start following it.

Geoff: 00:11:37

And so kind of like you're saying, I absolutely get it.

Geoff: 00:11:40

If you come across a crowdfunding campaign and it's a third of the way there, you're a lot more likely to say, yeah, I want to be a part of making this happen.

Christopher: 00:11:49

Yeah, and every little and large amount adds up and helps reach the goal I mean think about it if you're raising five million dollars and a million people gave five bucks

Geoff: 00:12:02

Mm

Christopher: 00:12:02

Five bucks?

Christopher: 00:12:03

A coffee?

Christopher: 00:12:06

You raised your budget from a five dollar donation, a million times.

Christopher: 00:12:09

You know what I'm saying?

Christopher: 00:12:10

Like, that's a large number and typically you don't have that many contributors on a crowdfunding campaign, but that's how it adds up like that.

Christopher: 00:12:17

So, make it smaller scale.

Christopher: 00:12:19

You're trying to raise twenty thousand dollars.

Geoff: 00:12:21

Yeah.

Christopher: 00:12:21

Well, what is that?

Christopher: 00:12:22

That's 20 people who can give a thousand or however else you break it down.

Christopher: 00:12:25

Don't make me do math right now.

Geoff: 00:12:26

Right.

Geoff: 00:12:27

No problem.

Geoff: 00:12:28

Mm hmm.

Geoff: 00:12:28

For sure.

Geoff: 00:12:30

And a lot of that reaching out is social media for you.

Christopher: 00:12:33

Absolutely.

Christopher: 00:12:34

Social media is huge.

Christopher: 00:12:36

Um, so for that one with Gary Emmerich, One Nightstand.

Christopher: 00:12:41

Back in 2011, we were trying to raise, it was like, 6, 800 dollars or 5, 800 dollars, or something like that.

Christopher: 00:12:48

It was a small amount compared to a lot of crowdfunding campaigns.

Christopher: 00:12:52

And we plateaued, we had like 13 days left and we just plateaued at like, 2000 dollars raised.

Christopher: 00:12:58

And I got permission to share it on an actress friend's wall

Geoff: 00:13:03

Yeah,

Christopher: 00:13:03

and somebody, that actress friend, she's not even part of the project,

Christopher: 00:13:07

but somebody, that actress friend knew who I had no connection to except through her, saw the campaign.

Christopher: 00:13:16

I wake up one morning, I have a text from Gary Amrick, it says, we're funded.

Christopher: 00:13:21

And I'm like, what?

Christopher: 00:13:24

It was plateaued at 2000 something for days and days.

Christopher: 00:13:28

How in the world did we raise?

Christopher: 00:13:29

Somebody plopped down 4, 000 dollars.

Geoff: 00:13:32

Uh huh.

Christopher: 00:13:32

...because I shared it on an actress friend's wall.

Christopher: 00:13:36

They had the money, they saw it, they liked it enough to get behind it and that took us over our goal.

Christopher: 00:13:43

And there were still like another 11, 12 days left in the campaign.

Geoff: 00:13:46

Cool.

Geoff: 00:13:47

Speaking of social media, it's changing the subject a little bit, but I heard a little story about how a tweet got the ball rolling for Church People.

Geoff: 00:13:59

I know we talked a little more about church people in the first half of our interview.

Geoff: 00:14:02

What's that about?.

Christopher: 00:14:03

So,

Christopher: 00:14:03

we shot a proof of concept trailer, a mock trailer of the script at the time.

Christopher: 00:14:10

So we had like, seven or eight scenes out of the script that we spent a day, a 12 and a half hour day.

Christopher: 00:14:15

And we pulled together a team of professionals and shot this proof of concept trailer.

Christopher: 00:14:21

And I was...

Christopher: 00:14:23

at the time we were trying to raise like six figures.

Christopher: 00:14:25

We ended up getting a really nice budget for church people.

Christopher: 00:14:28

But at the time we were looking at like low six figures.

Christopher: 00:14:32

And so I started sharing it on social media left and right.

Christopher: 00:14:36

And I was sending it on Twitter and stuff too.

Christopher: 00:14:39

Steve Martin, and Jimmy Fallon, and famous pastors, and not famous pastors, and you know, like Michael Hyatt, and, and Kyle Eidelman, and, and sometimes it gets a reaction, sometimes people don't respond.

Christopher: 00:14:51

But like, Michael Hyatt liked it, Kyle Eidelman was like, I'd see that, and I was just, trying to get the proof of concept out there, and I was trying to connect with people on social media, like, who might possibly be able to get it funded,

Geoff: 00:15:04

Yep.

Christopher: 00:15:04

and one of the people I tweeted was Stephen Baldwin.

Christopher: 00:15:07

And I kid you not, I think it was less than an hour, he replies back, who do I speak with directly, to see how I can best support your vision for this project.

Geoff: 00:15:18

Wow.

Christopher: 00:15:19

And I think it was the next morning I'm reading an email from Stephen Baldwin that basically said, I've been looking for filmmakers with the right comic sensibility to do something just like this.

Christopher: 00:15:31

That turned into a phone meeting, that turned into an in person meeting for about three hours.

Christopher: 00:15:37

in 2013 and three and a half years later, cameras were rolling on a fully funded feature film.

Christopher: 00:15:45

And it wasn't six figures.

Christopher: 00:15:47

So,

Geoff: 00:15:48

A very interesting story.

Christopher: 00:15:49

You never know who's going to see it and there's all kinds of stories of like, you know, the guy who went on to direct the Shazam movies...

Christopher: 00:15:56

He had a viral video.

Christopher: 00:15:58

It was, I think it was like a short...

Christopher: 00:16:00

like a five minute short or something.

Christopher: 00:16:02

It went viral.

Christopher: 00:16:03

And then he got known for doing horror and he got to do some feature horrors.

Christopher: 00:16:07

And then, fast forward a few years or however long it was, and he's directing Shazam and the second Shazam, I mean, like that kind of stuff happens.

Christopher: 00:16:16

Again, people don't know you exist if they don't know you exist and they don't know your work if they don't know your work.

Christopher: 00:16:22

So show them your work.

Geoff: 00:16:24

Uh huh.

Geoff: 00:16:26

Networking.

Geoff: 00:16:27

I mean, social media, what you're talking about is networking.

Geoff: 00:16:30

But, what about in person networking?

Christopher: 00:16:32

In person network is, fabulous and crucial.

Christopher: 00:16:35

I mean, really it's It's who you know.

Christopher: 00:16:38

And I'm not even talking nepotism.

Christopher: 00:16:40

It's who you know.

Christopher: 00:16:41

think one of your guests I heard was talking about that.

Christopher: 00:16:44

It's like, it's who you know and how they know you.

Christopher: 00:16:47

Um, I'm sorry, I'm blanking on who that guest was...

Geoff: 00:16:50

I think it was Melissa Sheridan, who actually said, that her husband likes to say, " It's not really who you know, it's who knows you".

Geoff: 00:16:58

Which is, it means the same thing...

Christopher: 00:17:00

Yeah,

Geoff: 00:17:00

...but if people don't know you, they don't know you.

Geoff: 00:17:02

It's

Christopher: 00:17:02

exactly So, like I mentioned, before, if you have a quality project that people are reacting well to, And it gets to screen at a festival and people are enjoying it.

Christopher: 00:17:16

I mean, people will want to work with you based on the quality of your work, whether they know you or not.

Christopher: 00:17:22

I got to find out who's behind that, you know, kind of a thing.

Christopher: 00:17:26

And if you can be there in person...

Christopher: 00:17:29

I mean, here's a classic example.

Christopher: 00:17:31

So, the film festival that I actually met Melissa Sheridan at, was the Beyond Entertainment Family Film Festival in Florida.

Geoff: 00:17:40

Yeah,

Christopher: 00:17:41

Scott,

Christopher: 00:17:41

Michael,

Christopher: 00:17:41

Branan.

Geoff: 00:17:42

yeah, we were there last year.

Geoff: 00:17:43

That's where we, uh, saw your, two shorts.

Geoff: 00:17:46

Um,

Christopher: 00:17:46

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:17:47

Birthday Brash and...

Christopher: 00:17:49

And zoom Time.

Geoff: 00:17:49

Zoom Time, yeah.

Christopher: 00:17:51

So the year before that, I was a speaker there.

Geoff: 00:17:53

Okay.

Christopher: 00:17:54

And did a workshop, was on a panel.

Christopher: 00:17:56

Bob Sines was there too.

Christopher: 00:17:57

Um, that cool.

Christopher: 00:17:58

We got to do a, Q& A about church people, cause they also screened Church People in one of the rooms.

Christopher: 00:18:04

So at that festival, I got to meet in person for the first time, even though we've been connected on social media for several years, Joshua K Carpenter, who is distributor.

Christopher: 00:18:14

And we went out to dinner with a group of people, but like he was there and we went out to dinner.

Christopher: 00:18:19

We hit it off.

Christopher: 00:18:20

We went out to dinner, like a couple of nights.

Christopher: 00:18:23

And as a result of being there in person, we started brainstorming ideas for two different features.

Geoff: 00:18:31

Mm hmm.

Christopher: 00:18:31

One of which didn't really take off.

Christopher: 00:18:34

We didn't get to the writing stage of it.

Christopher: 00:18:36

But the other of which, we got to the writing stage we started mapping out something.

Christopher: 00:18:41

Uh, it kind of fizzled in recent times.

Christopher: 00:18:43

But, my point is this.

Christopher: 00:18:46

Had I not been there in person, I wouldn't have met Joshua K Carpenter in person.

Christopher: 00:18:52

I wouldn't have met Scott Michael Branan who invited me out there, in person, you know?

Christopher: 00:18:57

And those are valuable connections to have.

Christopher: 00:19:00

Joshua's is a distributor.

Christopher: 00:19:01

Scott's a writer.

Christopher: 00:19:03

Those are two great people to know, you know?

Christopher: 00:19:06

And Joshua's mantra is, you want to have a distributor on board with your project from the beginning, as opposed to when its all done, because

Geoff: 00:19:15

hmm.

Christopher: 00:19:15

...they know where the project's going to land.

Christopher: 00:19:18

They're the distributor.

Geoff: 00:19:19

And they, can tell you, if you changed this, it go this much further.

Geoff: 00:19:24

And if you don't know that before you make the film,

Christopher: 00:19:26

Yes.

Geoff: 00:19:27

you can't do anything about it.

Christopher: 00:19:28

So we had several Zoom calls where we're writing this script and he would like, " So and so is not going to like it if you use that word there".

Christopher: 00:19:37

Can we tweak that"?

Christopher: 00:19:39

Like he knows the output.

Christopher: 00:19:41

He knows where it's going to go.

Christopher: 00:19:42

And he has relationships with those people, and he knows what they're going to cringe at and he knows what, you know, so that's a valuable, relationship to know.

Christopher: 00:19:50

But I, my point is, is I wouldn't have met, I wouldn't have ventured on pursuing projects with or anything, those two people specifically, if I hadn't been there in person and those conversations hadn't transpired the way that they did and going out to eat and brainstorming ideas.

Christopher: 00:20:07

I mean, like, Scott Michael Brannon said something like, uh, he had two actors in mind and he was like, want to, I want to figure out something with so and so and so and so.

Christopher: 00:20:17

And so we started brainstorming and that was the one that we actually started...

Christopher: 00:20:20

like, we got pretty far into the script on that one.

Christopher: 00:20:23

Like I said, it hasn't panned out yet, but, there might still be hope.

Christopher: 00:20:26

But that never would have gotten as far as it did had I not been there in person, and conversations not happened.

Christopher: 00:20:32

So if you can be at a festival in person...

Christopher: 00:20:35

if it's feasible, do it.

Christopher: 00:20:38

And especially if you're a praying person, and you're a believer in Jesus Christ, and you are committed to his leading and you ask him...

Christopher: 00:20:49

I mean like for example Stephanie Parker said it on your podcast before.

Christopher: 00:20:53

Laura Mae has said something similar.

Christopher: 00:20:55

You go and say, God, you open the doors.

Christopher: 00:20:57

You put me the person I need to be next with.

Christopher: 00:21:00

You know who these people are.

Christopher: 00:21:01

You know, their hearts.

Geoff: 00:21:02

Yeah,

Christopher: 00:21:02

does that.

Christopher: 00:21:03

He does that.

Geoff: 00:21:04

Jaclyn's had that experience too, exactly.

Geoff: 00:21:07

and met people that, like a producer, for example, who she hasn't worked with, but that producer had somebody with a concept who needed a writer and connected to Jaclyn.

Geoff: 00:21:18

Jaclyn ends up writing the project.

Geoff: 00:21:21

And it would not have happened...

Geoff: 00:21:23

if she had not met this producer at Content that year, she would not have known him at all.

Geoff: 00:21:30

And so it comes down to meeting people..

Christopher: 00:21:32

Again, people don't know you exist if they don't know you exist, and they don't know your work if they don't know your work.

Geoff: 00:21:38

That's right.

Christopher: 00:21:38

So how are they going to know you exist, and how are they going to know your work?

Geoff: 00:21:41

So I have to see if I can make that...

Geoff: 00:21:43

that's a bit long for a title, but that might be a good title for this episode.

Christopher: 00:21:47

It's who you know.

Christopher: 00:21:48

How about that?

Christopher: 00:21:49

It's who you know.

Geoff: 00:21:51

Anyway, it's been excellent, excellent, information, Christopher Shawn Shaw, I really appreciate the time you've spent today.

Geoff: 00:21:58

Is there anything else you'd like to add?

Geoff: 00:22:01

First of all, last minute advice that you would like to give our listeners you haven't had a chance to yet.

Geoff: 00:22:07

And then secondly, calls to action, places you want to send people, uh, links.

Christopher: 00:22:13

Sure.

Christopher: 00:22:14

Um, I would like to say uh, if you're listening and you're not a believer in Jesus Christ, repent and believe.

Christopher: 00:22:22

He loves you very, very much.

Christopher: 00:22:24

He does have a purpose and a plan for your life.

Christopher: 00:22:26

Repent and believe.

Christopher: 00:22:28

and you will go on a journey that you wouldn't have imagined.

Christopher: 00:22:32

And that doesn't, that doesn't always mean peaches and roses either.

Christopher: 00:22:36

You know, I mean, I mean like the believer's life isn't like, peaches and cream necessarily, but, we need a savior.

Christopher: 00:22:44

And you're no different.

Christopher: 00:22:46

You need a savior.

Christopher: 00:22:47

So, there's that.

Christopher: 00:22:49

Um, advice I would say...

Christopher: 00:22:52

In general, it's easier to make a film or to put together an acting reel or whatever it is in this industry today than it was 20, 30 years ago.

Christopher: 00:23:06

You do not have to wait for the phone to ring to get booked on a job.

Geoff: 00:23:11

Uh huh.

Christopher: 00:23:11

Produce your own content.

Christopher: 00:23:12

Sign up for a 168 film project.

Christopher: 00:23:15

Get people together in your area.

Christopher: 00:23:16

I mean, like, you may not have...

Christopher: 00:23:18

okay, do you have a smartphone?

Geoff: 00:23:20

Most everyone.

Christopher: 00:23:22

Practically everyone has a smartphone, and guess what?

Christopher: 00:23:24

There's a camera on a smartphone.

Christopher: 00:23:26

Now, do you want to shoot a feature with a smartphone?

Christopher: 00:23:29

Probably not.

Christopher: 00:23:30

People have done it though.

Geoff: 00:23:31

Uh huh.

Christopher: 00:23:32

People have made feature films on smartphones, or maybe a little bit more of a quality camera, but not super expensive.

Christopher: 00:23:39

But if you don't have the gear, somebody else you know probably does, or somebody you know who they know probably does.

Christopher: 00:23:46

That's how it works.

Christopher: 00:23:47

works.

Christopher: 00:23:47

You surround yourself with the key people, whether it's from people you've worked with before, or you're referred to them.

Christopher: 00:23:55

That's typically how it starts.

Christopher: 00:23:56

And then they know people, and they know people.

Christopher: 00:23:59

And that's how projects get off the ground.

Christopher: 00:24:01

So, there's kind of no excuse.

Christopher: 00:24:03

You can grab your smartphone if you're a cinematographer or want to be a cinematographer, or want to be a director, or want to be an actor, you can grab a smartphone and you can practice, practice, practice.

Christopher: 00:24:13

You're an actor, you can do monologues in front of your smartphone.

Christopher: 00:24:16

And then getting it in front of people, if, you know, if it's at a good place where you can share it and you want some feedback and you can take the feedback...

Christopher: 00:24:24

because some people will give you honest feedback.

Geoff: 00:24:27

Well, hopefully.

Christopher: 00:24:28

Yeah, hopefully, um, that's how you grow, is honest, feedback, um, that's in the right spirit.

Christopher: 00:24:34

But yeah, share it.

Christopher: 00:24:35

Like, hey, I just did this monologue.

Christopher: 00:24:37

What do you think?

Christopher: 00:24:39

Or, hey, I just, did this series of shots.

Christopher: 00:24:40

What do you think?

Christopher: 00:24:42

I'm not sure I mentioned this on the podcast, but I think I mentioned it to you, that my director reel for the first several years was 168 film project shorts.

Geoff: 00:24:51

Right.

Christopher: 00:24:53

That was my director reel

Geoff: 00:24:54

Uh huh.

Christopher: 00:24:54

I didn't start pulling clips from a feature film or from a TV show or like...

Christopher: 00:24:59

No, my director reel was from short films.

Geoff: 00:25:01

Right.

Christopher: 00:25:01

If it's quality stuff, I don't think people care where it's from.

Christopher: 00:25:06

I mean, at least that's my mindset.

Christopher: 00:25:08

Like, if you're an actor and you don't have any major credits or whatever, I just want to know that you

Christopher: 00:25:12

... Geoff: yeah.

Christopher: 00:25:12

...you're a good fit for the role and you can act.

Geoff: 00:25:15

Yeah, so an actor's reel needs to show what they can

Geoff: 00:25:18

do, not necessarily what they have done.

Christopher: 00:25:21

Correct.

Christopher: 00:25:21

That's a very

Christopher: 00:25:22

good way to put it.

Christopher: 00:25:23

You said that better than I did.

Geoff: 00:25:24

Oh, thank you.

Geoff: 00:25:28

Tell us where you'd like to send people to see your stuff.

Geoff: 00:25:31

Or to go to your crowdfunding campaigns, whatever you'd like to share.

Christopher: 00:25:34

Sure.

Christopher: 00:25:35

So, um, my website is Christopher Shawn Shaw dot com.

Christopher: 00:25:40

The Church People website is church people film.com and, there's a, button there where you can watch the trailer and there's a button there where you can find a way to view it.

Christopher: 00:25:50

Church People is also on other platforms that aren't mentioned on the site, like Tubi, which you just gotta sit through some ads, but you can watch it for free there.

Christopher: 00:25:58

I have another project on Tubi called Something Smells Funny, which is comics in the kitchen.

Christopher: 00:26:03

Um, very fun show.

Christopher: 00:26:05

Mark Christopher Lawrence is in it.

Christopher: 00:26:06

Uh, Victoria Jackson, Jimmy Brogan, Scott Wood is the host.

Christopher: 00:26:10

Bobby Collins is in one.

Christopher: 00:26:12

So, there's episodes of, Something Smells Funny, and we're hoping to do more of those...

Christopher: 00:26:16

on Tubi, which is a free platform.

Christopher: 00:26:19

Um, if you go to moviebank.

Christopher: 00:26:21

tv, moviebank.

Christopher: 00:26:23

tv, and just search Open Mike, M I K E, you can find that crowdfunding campaign.

Christopher: 00:26:29

If you go to moviebank.

Christopher: 00:26:30

tv and search, Dogs on Duty, the Doguseries, you can find that crowdfunding campaign for post production.

Christopher: 00:26:37

And if you go to givessendgo.

Christopher: 00:26:39

com, You can find, Like Daddy Used to Say, just type that in the search, and you can find that for development funds.

Christopher: 00:26:48

We're hoping to get that screenplay written sooner than later.

Geoff: 00:26:51

I notice you're using more than one platform.

Geoff: 00:26:54

So how do you decide which to use, especially for different projects?

Christopher: 00:26:59

It's a conversation with whoever's involved with the project, basically.

Christopher: 00:27:03

I mean, there's different pros and cons to different ones.

Christopher: 00:27:07

The cool thing about MovieBank.

Christopher: 00:27:09

tv is it's affiliated with Christian Ministry Alliance, So that makes it a 501c3 nonprofit umbrella, so to speak.

Christopher: 00:27:19

And so, when you contribute to a 501c3 profit, it's a tax write off.

Christopher: 00:27:25

That would been important to say.

Geoff: 00:27:27

you just did.

Christopher: 00:27:28

Yeah, So, so when you contribute to moviebank.

Christopher: 00:27:32

tv crowdfunding campaigns, those are 501c3 non profits and you get a tax write off.

Christopher: 00:27:37

with the govesendgo.

Christopher: 00:27:39

com because it's a ministry, Star Ministry, that Nicky Row Cross has with Like Daddy Used to Say, that's the reason you get the 501c3 tax write off for that one.

Geoff: 00:27:52

Okay, not from give, send, go directly.

Geoff: 00:27:54

Correct.

Geoff: 00:27:55

It's because it's a ministry that signed up under Give Send Go.

Geoff: 00:27:58

Yes.

Geoff: 00:27:58

So...

Geoff: 00:27:59

But if you do a crowdfunding campaign with moviebank.

Geoff: 00:28:02

tv, because of their affiliation with Christian Ministry Alliance, it's a 501c3 non profit organization.

Geoff: 00:28:08

It's Called a fiscal sponsorship.

Geoff: 00:28:10

So if you have fiscal sponsor, that means the people who donate to you can get a tax write off for their donation.

Geoff: 00:28:17

Good information.

Geoff: 00:28:18

And I wasn't aware of that.

Geoff: 00:28:20

I'm glad I asked.

Christopher: 00:28:21

I'm glad you asked too.

Christopher: 00:28:22

That completely escaped my mind.

Geoff: 00:28:24

Well, thank you so much for your time today Christopher.

Geoff: 00:28:27

And, uh, I'm actually hoping that we run across each other in person, as we've been talking about.

Geoff: 00:28:34

Maybe sometime this year.

Geoff: 00:28:35

We'll be going to content, I know.

Geoff: 00:28:37

I don't know if you have plans this year for content.

Christopher: 00:28:40

Unfortunately I don't have any plans for festivals this year off the top of my head.

Christopher: 00:28:45

I would love to though.

Christopher: 00:28:46

I would love to get the content and ICVM and NRB and I mean, I'd love to, I'd love to.

Christopher: 00:28:52

It's just, you know, it's the filmmaker's F word.

Christopher: 00:28:55

Funding.

Geoff: 00:28:57

Yeah, there's a list that we'd like to go to as well.

Geoff: 00:28:59

And obviously for us and being fairly new in our business, our podcast, our screenwriting academy, getting known is critical and We were just at Christian Worldview Film Festival, and it was absolutely, it was incredible for the connections that we made and the actual business that came out of it.

Geoff: 00:29:20

But yet we are unable to go to all of them, and so it's just two this year.

Christopher: 00:29:24

But I want to comment on something with, you and going to Christian worldview.

Christopher: 00:29:28

You like set up shop there and did interviews, right?

Geoff: 00:29:31

yeah, I did as many as I was able to edit while also, you know, participating in the festival.

Christopher: 00:29:36

But my point is you didn't just go

Christopher: 00:29:38

and sit in the crowd.

Christopher: 00:29:41

You went and you got your platform out there.

Geoff: 00:29:45

Mm hmm.

Christopher: 00:29:46

Because you had people on your podcast.

Christopher: 00:29:49

at the film festival.

Christopher: 00:29:51

That's fantastic.

Christopher: 00:29:52

So talk about top of mind, word of mouth.

Christopher: 00:29:55

You didn't just go and sit and, Oh, that's a good film.

Christopher: 00:29:57

That's a good film.

Christopher: 00:29:58

And, All right.

Christopher: 00:29:59

Bye.

Christopher: 00:29:59

You know?

Christopher: 00:30:00

No, you did something there.

Christopher: 00:30:01

You engaged.

Christopher: 00:30:03

I commend you for that.

Christopher: 00:30:03

And that's

Geoff: 00:30:04

Well, thank you.

Christopher: 00:30:04

a classic example of what your listeners can take out of that commendation

Geoff: 00:30:09

Apply it to themselves in one way or another.

Christopher: 00:30:11

Apply it.

Christopher: 00:30:12

Yeah.

Christopher: 00:30:13

Yeah, like, yeah.

Christopher: 00:30:14

Ask God to guide your steps and ask God for creative ways that you can get in front of the people you need to get in front of, for whatever reason you need to be in front of them.

Geoff: 00:30:25

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:30:27

Awesome.

Geoff: 00:30:28

Well thanks Christopher Shawn Shaw, it's been great.

Christopher: 00:30:31

Thank you so much.

Christopher: 00:30:32

I really appreciate you having me and God bless you and Jaclyn and your audience.

Geoff: 00:30:37

And you, and your work.

Christopher: 00:30:38

Thank you.

Christopher: 00:30:38

Amen.