Faithful Filmmaking: Grit Without Compromise - With David Alford and Joseph Stam

Geoff: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.

Geoff: 00:00:02

I'm Geoff.

Geoff: 00:00:03

It's great to be back with you, and today I'm happy to be sharing the mic

Geoff: 00:00:08

with David Alford and Joseph Stam.

Geoff: 00:00:10

Welcome, guys

David: 00:00:12

you, Geoff.

David: 00:00:12

for having us

Joseph: 00:00:13

Yeah, thank you

Geoff: 00:00:13

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:00:14

We'll, uh, introduce you, and then we'll get into it.

Geoff: 00:00:18

I actually did see your film, which has been rebranded or is

Geoff: 00:00:22

being renamed to, Due North.

Geoff: 00:00:24

Um, and I saw it a while ago, probably because our friend Sharne Lanier is in it,

David: 00:00:32

Yes

Geoff: 00:00:32

don't remember exactly where, what platform or how I saw it, but,

Geoff: 00:00:36

um, probably she was promoting it, and that's why Jaclyn and I, watched it.

Geoff: 00:00:40

But let's get into that in a minute.

Geoff: 00:00:41

First of all, uh, we'll introduce David.

Geoff: 00:00:44

Uh, David Alford started Cross Purposes Productions in 2019 and

Geoff: 00:00:48

has been a driving force behind the production of all five of their films.

Geoff: 00:00:54

graduating from the University of Texas with a Bachelor of Science

Geoff: 00:00:57

in Radio, Television, and Film in the early '90s, David worked for

Geoff: 00:01:01

Christian Radio in the Christian music format as well as the talk format.

Geoff: 00:01:06

David spent five years acting and directing in the San Antonio theater

Geoff: 00:01:09

scene and eventually became a professional actor at the Barter Theatre in Abington,

Geoff: 00:01:15

Virginia, where he worked in the resident acting company for six years.

Geoff: 00:01:20

Shortly before COVID hit, he took a hiatus from the stage and wrote his

Geoff: 00:01:23

first screenplay for a short film, and since then he has produced three more

Geoff: 00:01:29

award-winning feature length films that have gone on to be distributed worldwide.

Geoff: 00:01:35

Welcome, David.

David: 00:01:36

Thank you.

David: 00:01:36

Geoff.

David: 00:01:37

It's good to be here.

David: 00:01:38

I'm looking forward to this conversation

Geoff: 00:01:40

Yeah, me too.

Joseph: 00:01:41

That sounds like a cool guy right there, the

Joseph: 00:01:43

guy that you just read about.

Joseph: 00:01:45

Is that David?

Geoff: 00:01:46

if I understand correctly, you've worked with him a lot,

David: 00:01:48

Yeah, I can't, I can't get rid of him.

David: 00:01:51

Every time I show up on set, he's there.

David: 00:01:52

I don't know how that works

Geoff: 00:01:54

Well, that might be your fault.

Geoff: 00:01:55

I don't know.

David: 00:01:56

It is

Geoff: 00:01:58

We'll find out.

Geoff: 00:01:59

And so, uh, Joseph Stam grew up with a theatrical streak encouraged

Geoff: 00:02:03

by his mother, and as a film enthusiast encouraged by his older

Geoff: 00:02:07

brother, who is now a film editor.

Geoff: 00:02:09

He took the stage as Peter Pan when he was eight years old and never stopped.

Geoff: 00:02:13

At 16 years of age, Joseph was cast in his first short film, "Cross Purposes."

Geoff: 00:02:20

Curious about everything involved in filmmaking, he started honing his writing

Geoff: 00:02:23

and directing skills and eventually joined Cross Purposes Productions

Geoff: 00:02:26

creative team behind the camera for their next three full-length films.

Geoff: 00:02:31

Six years later, he hasn't stopped writing and, directing and acting

Geoff: 00:02:36

in film productions, sometimes doing all three on the same production.

Geoff: 00:02:41

good to have you, Joseph.

: 00:02:42

Thank you.

: 00:02:43

Thank you for having me

Geoff: 00:02:44

okay.

Geoff: 00:02:45

So Joseph, while we're talking to you, tell us about this, uh,

Geoff: 00:02:48

relationship because, uh, it sounds like you've worked a lot with David.

Geoff: 00:02:51

How did that start?

Joseph: 00:02:52

Um, uh, that started because he was actually over the, theater

Joseph: 00:02:56

program that I was, involved in, um, middle school through high school.

Joseph: 00:03:02

Um, he, he had started that youth program, and when he left that program

Joseph: 00:03:06

to go start his production company, he asked me to audition for the first film,

Joseph: 00:03:11

uh, which was terribly exciting to me.

Joseph: 00:03:13

and I was very interested in film.

Joseph: 00:03:15

And film is, it- it's all the same basics as theater acting, but it's

Joseph: 00:03:20

very different and it's very, uh, it's very small, and it's very, internal.

Joseph: 00:03:27

And, you know, you're performing for the person in the back of the house,

Joseph: 00:03:30

you're performing for the person who's right in front of your face.

Joseph: 00:03:32

So, um, it's a lot more intimate, and I was so excited and so grateful that David

Joseph: 00:03:37

got-- gave me that opportunity, to, try to learn, a completely different medium.

Joseph: 00:03:44

And, you know, David is-- he's been telling stories on a stage in front

Joseph: 00:03:49

of an audience for years, and so he just has this, incredible sixth sense,

Joseph: 00:03:56

about audiences and their reactions and what they, what they crave.

Joseph: 00:04:01

And, you know, you really need that in filmmaking, because you don't

Joseph: 00:04:05

get an audience until a year or two after you've actually shot the film.

Joseph: 00:04:10

And so, David just, has been a great mentor and has, taught me the,

Joseph: 00:04:15

the fundamentals of storytelling.

Joseph: 00:04:18

I've really enjoyed working with him.

Joseph: 00:04:20

He's, he's an incredible artist, and that, first film that we did,

Joseph: 00:04:23

it did not take off because of the production quality, I'll tell you that.

Joseph: 00:04:26

it took off because, uh, David had a solid story that he wanted to

Joseph: 00:04:31

tell, and it connected with people

Geoff: 00:04:33

Cool, cool.

Geoff: 00:04:33

And, and before we move on, I just wanna ask that transition

Geoff: 00:04:33

you mentioned, uh, 'cause it

Geoff: 00:04:37

is quite different, theater to screen and, going smaller and so on.

Geoff: 00:04:41

was that a challenge for you?

Geoff: 00:04:43

or did you have it kinda figured out before you stepped into that first

Geoff: 00:04:46

screen role or, did you have to really learn it as you were going?

Joseph: 00:04:50

I really had to learn it as I was going.

Joseph: 00:04:52

It's, really became a whole different process for me to build a, a

Joseph: 00:04:57

character that really felt real.

Joseph: 00:04:59

Because you can… I mean, y- you want things to feel real in theater,

Joseph: 00:05:04

but you also, you can fake it.

Joseph: 00:05:06

You can not be in the moment, and you can not be acting honestly, and you

Joseph: 00:05:10

can kinda get away with it sometimes more in stage just because it's a

Joseph: 00:05:13

little bit more posturing maybe.

Joseph: 00:05:15

Um, it's easier to get away with it, but there's no getting away with it.

Joseph: 00:05:19

There's not even a chance of that in film because the camera is there, and

Joseph: 00:05:24

it will call you out if you are giving it anything less than authenticity.

Joseph: 00:05:29

And so, um, it was, it was really tough, and it, it, required me to build out

Joseph: 00:05:36

a more three-dimensional character.

Joseph: 00:05:38

and the process for, developing the character was a lot more intimate

Joseph: 00:05:43

and, uh, involved me writing his journal, and I wrote that for,

Joseph: 00:05:47

like, months before the shoot.

Joseph: 00:05:49

Um, and just from his, uh, a lot of his first memories up until, you

Joseph: 00:05:54

know, uh, the film starts, just what he, he would've gone through, um,

Joseph: 00:05:59

and the, the journey of his life.

Joseph: 00:06:01

And then I wrote or was writing in that journal all through the shoot.

Joseph: 00:06:05

You know, at the end of the day if I had any time, it wasn't very much

Joseph: 00:06:08

because shooting days are very long.

Joseph: 00:06:10

But I would, I would try to, write in the journal as my character, and it

Joseph: 00:06:14

was a really heartbreaking thing to end that at the end of the shoot and to,

Joseph: 00:06:18

to kinda put that character to rest.

Joseph: 00:06:20

But that process was one, and I, I find different things to

Joseph: 00:06:24

do to get into each character.

Joseph: 00:06:25

But, that was a process that was a lot more, I guess all I can

Joseph: 00:06:29

say, is intimate than any other, character I had done before.

Joseph: 00:06:33

So it was definitely… It was new

Geoff: 00:06:35

So that first one was a short film, right?

Geoff: 00:06:37

That would be the one that David wrote.

David: 00:06:39

Yes.

David: 00:06:40

It's called Cross Purposes.

David: 00:06:41

Yeah

Geoff: 00:06:41

Cross Purposes.

Geoff: 00:06:42

So tell me, your bio said you, took a hiatus to write this short film.

Geoff: 00:06:47

Did you already know at that point that you were going to transition into,

Geoff: 00:06:51

directing and, and producing film?

Geoff: 00:06:53

Or tell us your thought process there

David: 00:06:56

that thought process was I had written it as a stage play.

David: 00:06:59

Uh, our theater has a stage play writing competition, you know, contest

David: 00:07:04

every year, and I thought, "Oh, I'll, I'll try my hand at writing a play."

David: 00:07:07

And as the story started developing, I started realizing, no, no, this

David: 00:07:10

is really not gonna work on stage.

David: 00:07:13

This is something that I've got to find another medium for . And so I thought,

David: 00:07:16

"Well, maybe it could be a screenplay." So I had never made a screenplay.

David: 00:07:20

I'd gone to school and studied film, like, you know, great movies on the

David: 00:07:23

screen, like a lot of film students have, but I'd never made a film.

David: 00:07:27

So for me, it was a matter of do I try this?

David: 00:07:31

So I talked to a few people who are in this area who had done short films before.

David: 00:07:35

I said, "Guys, is this possible?" I showed them the script.

David: 00:07:37

I said, "Can we do this?" And they're like, " Yes, we can do

David: 00:07:39

this." So the biggest challenge was, finding the, locations that

David: 00:07:44

we needed to shoot the film.

David: 00:07:45

This film primarily takes place in a hospital , and so for the film to be

David: 00:07:48

believable, I'm like, "Well, I, I, I can't, like, put my CPAP next to my bed

David: 00:07:53

and strap it on someone's face and say, 'Hey, it's a hospital,'" you know, kind of

David: 00:07:56

thing, and anyone would ever believe it.

David: 00:07:58

So I needed a hospital, but I had no budget.

David: 00:08:00

This is a little short film.

David: 00:08:01

We didn't have anything.

David: 00:08:02

So, uh, I talked to the local hospital.

David: 00:08:04

I just said, "I, I know this is a strange request, but we're a faith

David: 00:08:07

and family film company, and we're new here in Abingdon. We're just getting

David: 00:08:10

started. Could we possibly shoot a couple of days in your hospital?"

David: 00:08:14

Like four days, you know?

David: 00:08:16

And they, they kind of hemmed and hawed for a bit, but they finally got back to

David: 00:08:19

me and said, "Well, you know, there's a, there's a unit that's completely shut

David: 00:08:22

down due to a nursing shortage. There's nobody in that entire hallway. So as long

David: 00:08:26

as you're quiet, you don't make a mess of the nursing station, knock yourself out."

David: 00:08:30

So we literally got a brand-new hospital for free, you know, handed

David: 00:08:34

to us to shoot this film in, and of course it looks fantastic, and

David: 00:08:37

it look, it looks so professional.

David: 00:08:39

But, uh, all I can say is, you know, when you're, when you're coming together

David: 00:08:42

with a story, write about things that you have access to and people

David: 00:08:46

that you know and stories that mean something to you on a molecular level.

David: 00:08:50

I think what a lot of first-time screenwriters are is like, "Well, I'm

David: 00:08:53

gonna make a space odyssey," or, "I'm gonna do a, you know, colonial landing,

David: 00:08:57

you know, period kind of thing, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do something huge,"

David: 00:09:01

because they wanna do something that will strike other people's interests.

David: 00:09:04

And What Joe and I have always believed is that smaller stories are better.

David: 00:09:08

I mean, they're more universal, and they're… Tell a story

David: 00:09:11

that means something to you, that comes out of your life.

David: 00:09:14

Find some spot in your life that's different than what

David: 00:09:17

most people experience, and blow that up into your story.

David: 00:09:20

That's the different world you need to take people to, because your story's

David: 00:09:24

fascinating because it's yours and yours alone, and that's much easier to put

David: 00:09:28

down on film than some space odyssey you have no locations or, or stuff to produce

David: 00:09:33

. Geoff: Yeah, exactly.

David: 00:09:34

And it's much easier to start out that way in film as well, not just,

David: 00:09:38

from the story and the personal perspective, but, we realize that

David: 00:09:41

starting small allows you to build.

David: 00:09:44

it allows you to do something as opposed to not being able to do something

David: 00:09:48

you know, because you're dreaming too big.

David: 00:09:50

do it well, you

Geoff: 00:09:51

Yeah, do something, do it well, and, grow

David: 00:09:54

don't do something cheesy you can't do.

David: 00:09:55

Like, I wouldn't have shot the film if I didn't have a hospital because

David: 00:09:59

there's… I, I couldn't go to some office building and use it as a nurse's

David: 00:10:02

station and set up a bed in a room and call it a hospital and anyone believe it.

David: 00:10:06

So if I couldn't find a hospital, I wasn't gonna shoot the film.

David: 00:10:09

So I, all that to say is shoot what you have now, shoot what's around you, build

David: 00:10:15

your story around what's around you, and use that, and make it authentic, and your

David: 00:10:19

film will go a lot further because of it

Geoff: 00:10:21

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:10:21

And your, team, was that kind of people that were around you as

David: 00:10:24

It was, yes.

David: 00:10:26

It was a group of friends.

David: 00:10:27

I mean, I, I- Joe and I are part of a home- I homeschool all my

David: 00:10:30

kids, so, uh, we're part of a homeschool community of kids.

David: 00:10:33

So we have families and families and families of kids that all grew

David: 00:10:36

up together, and some of them have gone on to Liberty University,

David: 00:10:38

which is just down the highway from us here, and studied filmmaking.

David: 00:10:41

And, um, like, like Joseph's brother did that, and so he was our editor.

David: 00:10:45

Uh, some people here knew how to work a camera.

David: 00:10:47

Some people knew how to work sound.

David: 00:10:48

We rented some equipment, and everyone kinda knew their job

David: 00:10:51

'cause they'd done it once before.

David: 00:10:53

And I just had to start asking, and that's another thing, too.

David: 00:10:55

It's like, just talk to people.

David: 00:10:57

You'll be surprised.

David: 00:10:58

I mean, I live in a small rural town in Southwest Virginia.

David: 00:11:02

There's not 8,000 people in our town, and there's not many towns nearby either.

David: 00:11:06

So, uh, to find an entire film crew right here, it just took asking.

David: 00:11:11

I couldn't believe how many resources were right here available to me,

David: 00:11:14

and everyone was excited to work.

David: 00:11:16

So, um, ask and talk and communicate with people.

David: 00:11:19

You'll be shocked how many resources and locations are standing around

David: 00:11:22

you, and people are eager to help

Geoff: 00:11:24

That's cool.

Geoff: 00:11:24

we'll to Joseph again for a moment.

Geoff: 00:11:27

So you've now acted in multiple films with David.

Geoff: 00:11:31

In fact, you're, at least in the last one that I'm aware of, you

Geoff: 00:11:34

were co-director and co-writer.

Geoff: 00:11:36

tell us, Does your experience as an actor or any of those other roles go

Geoff: 00:11:40

outside of working with David, or has kind of that been the focus so far?

Joseph: 00:11:44

Um, yeah, most of the work that I've done, of late is with

Joseph: 00:11:48

David and, you know, there's been a, couple times I've had the opportunity

Joseph: 00:11:51

to do a show or something like that outside of it, as far as acting.

Joseph: 00:11:54

But really, I've been really focused on, film right now.

Joseph: 00:11:59

And, um, when I was acting in film, then I, I really wanted to

Joseph: 00:12:03

get into writing because, there's a lot more to it than this.

Joseph: 00:12:07

But the first spark, you know, initial spark that got me interested

Joseph: 00:12:10

in writing was just like, oh, well, you get to play every character,

Joseph: 00:12:14

or you get to act every character except for being restricted by lines.

Joseph: 00:12:18

You get to make them up.

Joseph: 00:12:19

I was like, that sounds fantastic.

Joseph: 00:12:21

Like, get me in on that.

Joseph: 00:12:22

Um, and so I, uh, I started writing, and then, after a while of that I

Joseph: 00:12:28

was like, well, I don't wanna lose control of the story and where it goes

Joseph: 00:12:33

and how it's told after the writing.

Joseph: 00:12:36

Like I, I need to learn how to direct, you know?

Joseph: 00:12:39

so essentially I'm a control freak is, is

Joseph: 00:12:42

the short of it.

Joseph: 00:12:43

But, uh and so then it's been really unique.

Joseph: 00:12:46

you know, writing a story and having no intention of playing any character

Joseph: 00:12:51

in it, and then you go and you kind of find out, for the, the newest film

Joseph: 00:12:56

that we did, Due North, we had no idea.

Joseph: 00:12:58

We were not thinking of that when we were writing it.

Joseph: 00:13:01

I wasn't thinking of actors.

Joseph: 00:13:02

You know?

Joseph: 00:13:02

The… It's such a different head space, and you're wearing such a different hat.

Joseph: 00:13:06

So then when it came to cast the film, we, we were kind of putting on

Joseph: 00:13:11

a different hat uh, we didn't know if I would be able to do this character.

Joseph: 00:13:14

This character's a very different one than I've ever done,

Joseph: 00:13:17

the character in Due North.

Joseph: 00:13:18

And, um, he just has a life and an edge to him that, uh, I had never,

Joseph: 00:13:24

experienced or dabbled in before.

Joseph: 00:13:26

And so w- we had to prove it I had to prove it to myself, and I had to prove

Joseph: 00:13:31

it to David that, you know, this, was something in my wheelhouse because I

Joseph: 00:13:35

felt like I did understand him, but that didn't mean that I could play him.

Joseph: 00:13:39

uh, but we thought, "Hey, it's, worth a shot." and so we did auditions.

Joseph: 00:13:43

I did readings with the person who, uh, ended up playing my grandpa in

Joseph: 00:13:46

the film, Rick McVey, and we did, a few different screen tests to

Joseph: 00:13:50

see if there was something there.

Joseph: 00:13:52

And I put, even though, yes, I was the director on the project, I put all

Joseph: 00:13:56

my, trust in David to make that call.

Joseph: 00:13:59

and in myself because even if he was like, "Oh, yeah, that's pretty good.

Joseph: 00:14:03

Uh, like, it, it, uh, that could work," or something like that, then, you know,

Joseph: 00:14:07

if, if it didn't feel right to me and if it didn't connect in an unexplainable

Joseph: 00:14:12

way, then I, I wouldn't have done it.

Joseph: 00:14:14

I would've been like, "Okay, this is, this is obviously

Joseph: 00:14:17

supposed to go to someone else."

Joseph: 00:14:18

But, um, there were just some moments in the, test screening process that

Joseph: 00:14:24

I was like, "Okay, I have to. I have to play this character," and

Joseph: 00:14:28

if it doesn't feel like you have to, then you probably shouldn't.

Joseph: 00:14:30

Um, so, yeah.

Joseph: 00:14:32

that's, that's

Joseph: 00:14:33

kinda how that developed

Geoff: 00:14:34

Yeah, it was a, a strong role for sure.

Geoff: 00:14:36

it needed to

Geoff: 00:14:36

be done Well,

David: 00:14:37

and you had mentioned Geoff too.

David: 00:14:40

You mentioned Sharone Lange, uh, who auditioned for us through her agency,

David: 00:14:44

and we were looking for someone to play, Joseph's mother in the film.

David: 00:14:47

And, um, and so we l- watched probably, watched 30 or 40, actresses that came

David: 00:14:52

through and auditioned and Sharone put her audition on video and sent it to

David: 00:14:56

us, and within about five seconds of the audition I was like, "There she is.

David: 00:15:00

There's Shelley.

David: 00:15:01

There's the woman I've been looking for this whole…" And in every way she

David: 00:15:04

read the line, I was like, "That's her.

David: 00:15:05

That's her attitude, that's her space, that's everything." Well, you know,

David: 00:15:08

uh, Sharone is a Black actress, and so we're like, well, I went back and said,

David: 00:15:11

" who cares? Let's rewrite the script."

David: 00:15:13

And so I went back and rewrote the script so that, the father was actually Joseph's

David: 00:15:17

father and Sharone was his stepmother, and that gave a whole new dimension to

David: 00:15:21

the film and to her relationship with his grandfather that was contentious

David: 00:15:25

in a way it wouldn't have been before.

David: 00:15:27

It changed everything on a dime and made everything richer and better.

David: 00:15:31

And of course, we got Sharone to play it, and she was fantastic in the whole film.

David: 00:15:34

And so the whole thing went to a whole nother level.

David: 00:15:37

So when casting, I encourage people to say, "You know what? Get the

David: 00:15:40

best actors you can get." Uh, d- don't pay attention to limitations.

David: 00:15:44

Work around 'em.

David: 00:15:45

Limitations can be fixed.

David: 00:15:46

Don't think of limitations.

David: 00:15:48

Just find the best, most qualified people, because nothing sinks a Christian

David: 00:15:52

film faster than watching this great movie and all of a sudden someone's

David: 00:15:54

Aunt Martha comes in and plays a role.

David: 00:15:57

And sweet Aunt Martha has never acted a day in her life, and all of a sudden the

David: 00:16:00

whole movie feels like some bad skit, you know, and you've lost your audience.

David: 00:16:06

We have to be consistent all the way through with quality of talent, and

David: 00:16:09

that will make a difference in your film more than anything, I think.

Geoff: 00:16:13

Mm-hmm.

Geoff: 00:16:14

Okay, so let's take a step back for a second and talk about directing.

Geoff: 00:16:17

transitioning from directing on stage, uh, theater to directing

Geoff: 00:16:21

film, uh, was that difficult for you?

Geoff: 00:16:24

was it what you expected, or was there some surprises in there?

Geoff: 00:16:28

Uh, tell us about that

David: 00:16:29

Well, much to Joe's surprise, it's a power trip.

David: 00:16:32

It really is.

David: 00:16:33

He, he was thrilled at that aspect of it.

David: 00:16:35

But, but you know, stage acting or stage directing, you're directing

David: 00:16:39

the stage and the audience is seeing the entire room at one point in time.

David: 00:16:43

Their eyes can go wherever they want to, which as actors we're trained

David: 00:16:46

that anybody could be looking at you at any point in time, and so you'd

David: 00:16:49

always have to be exist in the world.

David: 00:16:51

Whereas a film director, you control the eyeballs, the literal eyeballs of

David: 00:16:55

your audience, and you direct those eyeballs where you want them to go.

David: 00:16:59

And that is a power that is really easy to start becoming manipulative

David: 00:17:04

with, and, and it's a way that I think it's very dangerous in some ways.

David: 00:17:08

You have almost too much power.

David: 00:17:10

And I think as a director, I have to constantly pull myself back and say, "You

David: 00:17:13

know what? I'm here to present a story. Let the audience do more interpreting

David: 00:17:16

than I'm doing so that they can decide what they wanna think about moments,

David: 00:17:20

instead of me trying to force what they think through the power of the lens."

David: 00:17:24

and Joseph's extremely talented.

David: 00:17:26

He's, a very visual artist, and so he's challenged me with cameras in ways that

David: 00:17:30

I would never have pushed myself, which is the one great thing about someone

David: 00:17:33

who's in his 50-somethings working with someone who's in his 20-somethings,

David: 00:17:38

is that he pushes me as a director, and I keep him on track as a director.

David: 00:17:42

So, um, but finding ways to work with a camera is something that Joe's

David: 00:17:46

taken to like a fish takes to water.

David: 00:17:48

Um, but I think it's a whole different ballgame.

David: 00:17:50

I love them both.

David: 00:17:51

I don't speak badly of either one, but film it is a power trip

David: 00:17:54

if you're not careful with it

Geoff: 00:17:56

Interesting perspective.

Geoff: 00:17:57

Hadn't thought about it like that.

Geoff: 00:17:59

tell us about some experiences on set.

Geoff: 00:18:01

any surprises or, what has happened that you haven't expected?

Joseph: 00:18:06

Always, surprises.

Joseph: 00:18:07

I j- I was just thinking, we were talking about Sharone, and she brought

Joseph: 00:18:13

all sorts of surprises as an actor.

Joseph: 00:18:15

Uh, I remember one scene, I think David and her had talked about it before,

Joseph: 00:18:20

but they didn't talk to me about it.

Joseph: 00:18:22

There was one scene where, um, I'm, my character's in jail, and, she comes to

Joseph: 00:18:27

visit me, and I, I ask for a cigarette, and she's supposed to give it to me.

Joseph: 00:18:33

But, they had decided that she wasn't going to, and let's see what Daython's

Joseph: 00:18:36

reaction is gonna be, you know?

Joseph: 00:18:39

Uh, and so she, like, acted like she was gonna hand it to me, and

Joseph: 00:18:42

then she took it herself, and then she, like, walked away with it.

Joseph: 00:18:45

And, like, that completely… I, like, went off and pouted about it for a

Joseph: 00:18:50

little bit, and then we, like, exchanged a couple lines, and then got back

Joseph: 00:18:53

on script, and it was just like she constantly was just keeping you on your

Joseph: 00:18:57

toes and throwing different things at you and seeing how you would react to

Joseph: 00:19:00

it, and it was so fun to play with her.

Joseph: 00:19:02

But those were the fun surprises.

Joseph: 00:19:05

There were other surprises that, you know, you have people, uh, scrambling because

Joseph: 00:19:10

we lost a location the day before we were supposed to shoot it, and so now we're,

Joseph: 00:19:15

scrambling around looking for another one.

Joseph: 00:19:17

But, uh, I don't, I don't know, we, we've talked about this, David, but, it's pretty

Joseph: 00:19:22

incredible how every time that there's been a huge hiccup logistics-wise, on

Joseph: 00:19:28

the, the set, we've actually ended up with something so much better than what we, we

Joseph: 00:19:34

expected or that we had in the beginning.

Joseph: 00:19:37

so it's not that we, like, are hoping for, hiccups to come along

Joseph: 00:19:42

the way, but if they do, uh, we kind of have, more of a confidence about

Joseph: 00:19:47

us, I think, at this point in, in our filmmaking journey, just because

Joseph: 00:19:50

we've seen it, work out for the best.

Joseph: 00:19:53

And, and sometimes you really need a creative box to be put in, and then you

Joseph: 00:19:57

come up with something really special that you never would've thought of.

Joseph: 00:20:00

and that's why I love shooting on location, but that's

Joseph: 00:20:03

a whole different story.

Joseph: 00:20:04

Uh, you have too much control in a studio, and things are different on an

Joseph: 00:20:09

outdoor set, and floors creak differently than you expect, and it just brings

Joseph: 00:20:13

a, a different level of authenticity.

Joseph: 00:20:15

But yeah, David, I don't know if there's any other surprises that you think of

David: 00:20:18

yeah, I mean, what he's referring to was a football stadium.

David: 00:20:21

We were supposed to shoot at a football stadium, at a

David: 00:20:24

high school football stadium.

David: 00:20:25

And, and the, the day before, this was around COVID, this is when we

David: 00:20:28

were shooting our first feature film.

David: 00:20:30

The principal calls us and says, "I'm sorry. Y'all can't come on campus."

David: 00:20:34

I'm like, "It's outdoors.

David: 00:20:35

We're not going in the school.

David: 00:20:37

It's summertime.

David: 00:20:38

There are no students there.

David: 00:20:40

Why can't, why can't we use the field?" "Sorry, no, because of COVID, you can't

David: 00:20:44

come on campus." So we lost a football stadium the day before we're supposed

David: 00:20:48

to shoot a scene in a football stadium.

David: 00:20:50

And, you know, God just brings surprises on every turn, and His

David: 00:20:53

faithfulness is just so remarkable in the sense that it's like someone made

David: 00:20:57

a phone call and got a better stadium.

David: 00:20:59

And then we went to this beautiful stadium.

David: 00:21:02

We're like, "Wow, I can't believe this came about." Same thing with

David: 00:21:05

the prison Joe is referring to.

David: 00:21:06

Again, we're shooting a film that needed a high security prison

David: 00:21:11

on a very, very tiny budget.

David: 00:21:13

So, so we went to a, a local high security prison that just so happened

David: 00:21:17

to shut down eight weeks before, and so we went in to shoot there.

David: 00:21:21

They said, "Yeah, y'all can have the prison.

David: 00:21:23

It's empty.

David: 00:21:23

Knock yourselves out." So he actually went, "We'll give you some sheriffs if

David: 00:21:27

you use as extras if you want." I said, "Sure, bring 'em on." So we went to go

David: 00:21:31

shoot in the courtyard, kind of where the prisoners would play basketball in

David: 00:21:34

that scene Joseph was just referring to.

David: 00:21:36

We got there and the door was locked, and we said, "Oh, hey, guys, can you

David: 00:21:39

get the key?" And everybody looked around like, "I, I, I don't know

David: 00:21:42

where the key is." And no one knew where the key was for the scene.

David: 00:21:45

And then… And so this courtyard, we needed this courtyard something terrible.

Joseph: 00:21:48

we had storyboarded, we had like months ago storyboarded this entire scene.

Joseph: 00:21:55

Like we had it a very particular way and we really wanted to shoot there.

Joseph: 00:21:59

And so, uh, our unit manager, you were about to say David

David: 00:22:02

Yeah, he basically got his tools out and broke into a high security prison

David: 00:22:07

so that we… He said, "Only for you, David, would I break into a high security

David: 00:22:11

prison to get into this room so we could shoot the scene." So yeah, uh, y- you

David: 00:22:15

never know what's gonna happen on set, but God is faithful, and he's been so

David: 00:22:18

generous to us that, again, when Joseph…

David: 00:22:21

When there's a problem, at first we would have heart attacks and fall

David: 00:22:23

over and panic and scream and cry.

David: 00:22:25

But after a while, it's like, "So what's God gonna do now?" And it was

Geoff: 00:22:28

Yeah.

David: 00:22:28

more beautiful than we expected.

Geoff: 00:22:29

Yeah, we, we hear examples all the time, uh, of people with

Geoff: 00:22:33

that exact same thing, things falling through, but, you know, God working

Geoff: 00:22:37

out something that's even better.

Geoff: 00:22:38

That's cool.

Geoff: 00:22:39

so let's take this opportunity right now, because we have been talking

Geoff: 00:22:42

about Due North, in little bits.

Geoff: 00:22:45

Give us a nutshell.

Geoff: 00:22:46

Let's tell our listeners who aren't familiar with it, um, what it's all about.

Joseph: 00:22:50

yeah, I play a character named, Jason, who, is addicted to drugs

Joseph: 00:22:56

and, is in trouble with the law, and he, is placed under house arrest with

Joseph: 00:23:01

a ankle monitor, um, and has to stay at his grandfather's ranch, for a year.

Joseph: 00:23:08

And they have not met each other before, and they do not like

Joseph: 00:23:11

each other when they do meet.

Joseph: 00:23:13

And so, uh, some enemies of theirs, uh, come back for an overdue debt

Joseph: 00:23:18

and, um, you know, wildness ensues.

Joseph: 00:23:21

But I think at the heart of it, um, is really this, relationship between

Joseph: 00:23:27

this grandfather and grandson and seeing them, break down the walls

Joseph: 00:23:31

that they both have up and really find each other, And, um, yeah, that's,

Joseph: 00:23:36

that's Due North in a nutshell.

Joseph: 00:23:37

But it was, again, very different character for me to play, uh,

Joseph: 00:23:42

who had a l- again, a lot of barriers, a lot of walls up.

Joseph: 00:23:45

Um, and just the, the process of really understanding this person and the story

Joseph: 00:23:51

was, was pretty incredible and, you know, just the, addiction part of it,

Joseph: 00:23:56

getting to meet with people who were in recovery or had been through recovery

Joseph: 00:24:00

before, and they were so vulnerable with me and sharing their stories And

Joseph: 00:24:05

I really hope that, uh, I was able to kind of, you know, uh, be a bridge for

Joseph: 00:24:11

their voices in some way in the film.

Joseph: 00:24:13

Um, they were, incredible and, it seemed like the film meant a lot to them

Joseph: 00:24:19

after we, screened it at the premiere.

Joseph: 00:24:21

they all came and, you know, that was the thing I was most stressed

Joseph: 00:24:24

for, for the, premiere because I was like, "Well, if this isn't accurate,

Joseph: 00:24:28

then the film doesn't really work."

Joseph: 00:24:30

Um, so to see their reactions was pretty incredible.

Joseph: 00:24:33

it was very different, and it was a film that we wanted to make, for a long time,

Joseph: 00:24:38

and we kinda got told by a distribution company, "Uh, this is really great, but,

Joseph: 00:24:43

um, this is a more, like, male-leaning, you know, sort of, uh, thing, and that's

Joseph: 00:24:49

not what your demographic is right now.

Joseph: 00:24:51

So you should really try, like, a, rom-com." And we were like, "Oh,

Joseph: 00:24:56

okay." And so we tried to write that, but it just… Like David was talking

Joseph: 00:25:03

about with authenticity, it was not coming from an authentic place.

Joseph: 00:25:07

Not that we can't write a rom-com, but it just wasn't

Joseph: 00:25:09

coming from an authentic place.

Joseph: 00:25:10

It was coming from homework, you know?

Joseph: 00:25:13

To try to do this thing.

Joseph: 00:25:14

Um, and so we w- got really frustrated with it after we had gone through

Joseph: 00:25:19

however many drafts of that film.

Joseph: 00:25:22

And then we took a step back, and David was very wise and was like,

Joseph: 00:25:26

"Let's just read this again, see, see what were we doing with this film?"

Joseph: 00:25:30

And it just, like, leapt off the page for us, and we were like, "What?

Joseph: 00:25:34

This is like, this is alive right now.

Joseph: 00:25:36

this needs to be seen." There's some sort of urgency that you have

Joseph: 00:25:40

when you know a story is good.

Joseph: 00:25:42

And, um, we were like, " what are we doing?" Like, "We, we have to

Joseph: 00:25:46

tell this story." So, uh, th- this

Joseph: 00:25:48

story is definitely one that felt urgent for us.

Geoff: 00:25:50

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:25:51

It definitely is a challenging story.

Geoff: 00:25:53

Uh, I think falls in the category of what might be called hard faith.

Geoff: 00:25:57

Is that a term you guys are familiar with?

Geoff: 00:25:58

Do you know Spencer Fulmar and,

Geoff: 00:26:00

and

David: 00:26:01

that.

David: 00:26:01

and I don't necessarily love that term.

David: 00:26:03

I, I understand what it means, where it's coming from.

David: 00:26:05

I get the idea behind it.

David: 00:26:06

Um, I just, I come from a school of storytelling where not everything

David: 00:26:10

has to work out right at the end in order to be a Christian film.

David: 00:26:14

And I think we as Christians are maturing in our storytelling in

David: 00:26:18

that God does intervene in our lives and God creates changes.

David: 00:26:22

Those changes don't always present 100% flip around that minute and suddenly the

David: 00:26:27

drug addict's now got a white robe on and singing in the choir with all the

David: 00:26:30

rest of us.

David: 00:26:31

And, uh, conversion sometimes takes time, and it's not always neat and tidy.

David: 00:26:36

Just because someone is converted to the Christian faith doesn't mean

David: 00:26:39

all the sins of their past have no more consequences and everything's

David: 00:26:42

rosy and, and I think we're lying to people if we present life that way.

David: 00:26:46

So by hard faith, you mean do we need to tell people the grit of the world?

David: 00:26:52

We don't need to revel in it.

David: 00:26:53

There's enough of it out there.

David: 00:26:54

We all know what the grit is.

David: 00:26:56

But I, I think for us, Due North had a little bit more grit than anything we had

David: 00:26:59

done before 'cause our stuff's been really family-friendly all the way through.

David: 00:27:02

This was a little grittier because we wanted it to be authentic and

David: 00:27:05

we wanted people who struggled with addiction to hear the story and not

David: 00:27:09

necessarily be reinforced, but at least go, "I've heard that world before."

David: 00:27:13

Um, uh, uh, because the world I… If I give them a Sunday

David: 00:27:15

school little whitewashed world, they're gonna go, "You're fakey.

David: 00:27:18

You're not being authentic, and so you're, you're trying to trick me into

David: 00:27:21

becoming a Christian." I'm like, "No.

David: 00:27:23

I'm really not.

David: 00:27:24

I'm just trying to create a story that's got some reality to it without being

David: 00:27:27

offensive and without being immoral."

David: 00:27:29

But trying to get it out there in a way that people see themselves, and hopefully

David: 00:27:34

they walk away going, "Well, if that bad part, if they could overcome that and

David: 00:27:38

find something of family and a way back to God at the end, maybe I can too."

Geoff: 00:27:42

Yeah

David: 00:27:42

and I, that's what my idea of it is.

Geoff: 00:27:44

Yeah, I think that's really well said, and from my perspective, I

Geoff: 00:27:47

think that, those who, use the term hard faith with regards to filmmaking, that's

Geoff: 00:27:52

exactly what they're talking about.

Geoff: 00:27:54

That's exactly their aim and their goal, uh, to represent, those types of stories.

Geoff: 00:27:59

Um,

Geoff: 00:27:59

I

David: 00:27:59

careful, though.

David: 00:27:59

I think, yeah, well, I'm sorry, we have to be careful not to sin in that though,

David: 00:28:02

too, because I've seen it taken too far, and it's like we don't, we don't

David: 00:28:06

need to mimic the world in our faith.

David: 00:28:08

We don't need to represent things that are gonna cause people to stumble.

David: 00:28:11

Uh, that's, that's not helpful either.

David: 00:28:13

And so, and I've seen it done really well, and I've seen it kind of

David: 00:28:16

overdone, where it's like, "We just gotta do things like the world does

David: 00:28:20

so they'll see us." And I'm like, "I, I don't subscribe to that either."

Geoff: 00:28:22

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:28:23

Yep, I agree with you.

Geoff: 00:28:24

Actually, I will ask a, question with regards to distribution and,

Geoff: 00:28:28

there's a little bit of language in your film that, would not have

Geoff: 00:28:32

traditionally been in Christian films.

Geoff: 00:28:33

Now, I'm not talking about extreme vulgarity or taking

Geoff: 00:28:36

the Lord's name in vain.

Geoff: 00:28:37

but has that been a challenge for you I don't know what your

Geoff: 00:28:41

distribution path has been.

Geoff: 00:28:43

Uh, we can talk about that actually, because I believe

Geoff: 00:28:46

you are actually relaunching.

Geoff: 00:28:48

I know it was called Searching for the Elephant.

Geoff: 00:28:51

and it has been or is being changed to Due North.

Geoff: 00:28:55

So that has a distribution story behind it, I'm guessing.

David: 00:28:59

Yes, distribution.

David: 00:29:01

We, we've had some exciting distribution stories.

David: 00:29:03

Joseph is still getting he- heart palpitations from our artwork from

David: 00:29:06

our film before this one being changed without our approval, and it was the

David: 00:29:11

artwork that we'd submitted and the artwork that came out with the film were

David: 00:29:14

two very completely different things.

David: 00:29:17

And we felt like the new artwork misrepresented our film

David: 00:29:20

entirely, and it really damaged the distribution of the film.

David: 00:29:23

Uh, in this one, they used our artwork, which we were really happy about.

David: 00:29:27

We felt really good about it.

David: 00:29:28

Uh, we sent it to a different distribution company that we had

David: 00:29:31

used for all of our other films.

David: 00:29:33

It was a company that was very eager.

David: 00:29:34

They were kinda smaller, but they were really independent in the sense that

David: 00:29:37

they're like, "We're gonna have an agent that's gonna contact people on your

David: 00:29:40

behalf. We're not just gonna throw it out there. We're gonna pursue it for you."

David: 00:29:43

And, and they tried really hard for about a year and got absolutely nothing done.

David: 00:29:49

So they've been sitting on the film for about a year, and they had a three-year

David: 00:29:53

contract of distribution and, and they did, you know, in a gentleman's

David: 00:29:57

way say, "Hey, guys, if you're not happy with this, we'll, you know,

David: 00:30:00

we'll cancel the contract." So we gave them about 18 months to get something

David: 00:30:04

done, and we said, "Hey, guys, we're really not happy with the contract."

David: 00:30:07

So we took the film back to our normal distributor, and of course, they said,

David: 00:30:10

"Yes, we would love to have the film." And so they said, "But hey, can we change

David: 00:30:14

it, repackage it, give it new artwork, give it a new name, so when it goes out

David: 00:30:18

to all these platforms again that it got on last time, uh, they'll, they'll

David: 00:30:22

just see it as a, as a new project?"

David: 00:30:23

And so that was why.

David: 00:30:24

That was the rebranding for it.

David: 00:30:25

It was a new company, a new distributor, and this is the company we've been

David: 00:30:28

working with since we started.

David: 00:30:30

So it's been, um, it's been helpful, and they're, they're old

David: 00:30:32

friends and they're dear friends, and I know they'll do a good job.

David: 00:30:35

Now, because it is a hard faith film, there's a lot of

David: 00:30:37

places that won't take it.

David: 00:30:39

Um, I mean, you know, the Tubis and Amazon Primes and all that

David: 00:30:42

kind of stuff, they'll take it.

David: 00:30:43

They'll, you know, they'll, they'll be fine with it.

David: 00:30:45

Uh, but the faith-based ones like Pure Flix, where all of our

David: 00:30:47

other films are, and I, I don't expect they'll, they will take it.

David: 00:30:50

And I, I think when we made the film, Joseph and I had to come to

David: 00:30:53

the understanding that that's not the priority of making this film.

David: 00:30:57

Uh, if, if one person who struggles with addiction finds a path out of

David: 00:31:00

it because of this film, the entire process has been worth it, and we've

David: 00:31:04

already experienced that just from the people who've seen it so far.

David: 00:31:06

So that's what this film's for.

David: 00:31:08

So where it goes is kind of, uh, it's in God's hands as far as we're concerned.

Joseph: 00:31:13

Yeah, Due North was actually the original title of the film.

Joseph: 00:31:17

That was our, our working title all through writing the film.

Joseph: 00:31:20

So, um, it was really interesting.

Joseph: 00:31:22

It felt very strange to retitle it, but also felt very right, and it

Joseph: 00:31:26

felt like we were going back home, you know, to the, original, concept.

Joseph: 00:31:30

And so, uh, I think that was exciting for us.

Joseph: 00:31:33

And, you know, yeah, again, just as far as, like, the cursing, it's not…

Joseph: 00:31:38

we weren't trying to go, crazy with it or, you know, most of the words that

Joseph: 00:31:41

are in there you find in the Bible in some form or fashion, you know?

Joseph: 00:31:45

So, um, you know, again, what David was talking about, not manipulating

Joseph: 00:31:49

an audience and not lying to them.

Joseph: 00:31:51

Those are two of the worst things that you can do as a storyteller, and your

Joseph: 00:31:55

audience will stop listening to you immediately if they sense that you're

Joseph: 00:31:59

doing either one of those things, being manipulative or lying to them.

Joseph: 00:32:02

And so, um, yeah, we didn't wanna get carried away, but we also didn't, uh,

Joseph: 00:32:07

just some characters it wasn't gonna, make sense if their reaction was, "Aw, man."

Joseph: 00:32:12

You know, it's like, okay, well, that you know?

Joseph: 00:32:15

It's like that's not quite, uh, with the people that I've talked to.

Joseph: 00:32:19

so, um, we're, it's not getting carried away and even necessarily

Joseph: 00:32:23

say what they would say.

Joseph: 00:32:24

But, um, yeah, just trying to be, to be honest about, you know, the,

Joseph: 00:32:28

the world and the world that we were portraying and the, the kind of

Joseph: 00:32:31

people that we were portraying, um, who really have put these walls up.

Joseph: 00:32:36

And so, you know, their, language really needed to feel a little prickly

Joseph: 00:32:41

because that was an extension of, you know, the barriers they were

Joseph: 00:32:45

putting up in front of everyone and how no one could get, close to them.

Joseph: 00:32:48

And the whole story is about breaking down those barriers and finding,

Joseph: 00:32:52

the warmth in the family again, and, forgiveness that comes through grace.

Geoff: 00:32:56

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:32:57

Awesome.

Geoff: 00:32:58

Uh, David, can we talk about funding for a moment?

Geoff: 00:33:01

I know it's I think probably the biggest challenge for filmmakers,

Geoff: 00:33:05

or it seems to be one that is often talked about and people struggle with.

David: 00:33:09

Yes

Geoff: 00:33:11

How does that work for you?

David: 00:33:12

Uh, it started with our little first little short film.

David: 00:33:15

We spent about 6 to $8,000 on that, and that was money we just had saved up.

David: 00:33:19

Got some money together and we shot it.

David: 00:33:21

It was about a 35-minute short film.

David: 00:33:23

Um, so it was kind of a mini feature.

David: 00:33:25

It actually competed at some of the Christian film festivals as a feature

David: 00:33:27

film 'cause it was, it was so long.

David: 00:33:30

Um, but we shot it on $9,000.

David: 00:33:31

Everyone took little bitty pay, you know, that's all we had,

David: 00:33:34

and then we got it distributed.

David: 00:33:36

And, uh, we've been blessed.

David: 00:33:37

That film has paid itself off and made money over the last five or

David: 00:33:41

six years.

David: 00:33:42

Uh, it was 39-minutes long, and, uh, it, it made it so, uh, you know, Amazon

David: 00:33:47

Prime at the time was taking short films.

David: 00:33:49

It got on that, it got on Tubi, it got on Pure Flix, it got on a bunch of, of

David: 00:33:52

major platforms and it got exposure.

David: 00:33:55

So it, I got that money back almost immediately.

David: 00:33:58

And, um, we started working on a feature film.

David: 00:34:00

So, um, when it came to the feature film, we used some of the money that

David: 00:34:03

Cross Purposes had had, put a little bit that we kind of were able to

David: 00:34:06

scrape up together into it, and we shot a full feature film for $35,000.

David: 00:34:10

And that seems like a lot of money, and it is, but once you, uh, for a feature

David: 00:34:15

film, you know, that's, that's the, the snack budget on most Marvel movies.

David: 00:34:18

You know, with that, you know, they can't even get snacks for that much.

David: 00:34:21

So we, um, we put that together and did that film, and that was a two-hour, uh,

David: 00:34:25

extravaganza as far as we were concerned.

David: 00:34:27

But again, we used places that were here in our community.

David: 00:34:30

We used actors that were here in our community.

David: 00:34:32

We didn't bring people in.

David: 00:34:33

We didn't hire a bunch of guns from Atlanta.

David: 00:34:35

We couldn't afford any of that.

David: 00:34:37

We did it with the talent that we had here, and that movie has since, uh,

David: 00:34:41

made its money back, uh, fivefold.

David: 00:34:43

It, it took off.

David: 00:34:44

It just hit Tubi the right way.

David: 00:34:46

It hit streaming the right way.

David: 00:34:47

It's gotten millions of views online, and it's

David: 00:34:49

just,

Geoff: 00:34:50

and tell us the name

David: 00:34:51

It's called Found.

David: 00:34:52

It's Found with a period

Geoff: 00:34:53

Okay

David: 00:34:54

because "Found" by itself is some horrible horror film.

David: 00:34:56

So don't… You'll, you'll see the difference immediately.

David: 00:34:59

But yeah, it's called Found with a period at the end of it, and Joseph

David: 00:35:01

stars in that one, and it's, um, it's everywhere as far as streaming's

David: 00:35:05

concerned, and it's, it's continuing to pay for itself over and over again.

David: 00:35:09

So the, the money those two films generated went into our third

David: 00:35:11

film, which is around $60,000.

David: 00:35:14

And then that film got lumped in, and so the money making from those has gone

David: 00:35:17

into our fourth film, Searching for the Elephant, which is now Due North.

David: 00:35:20

And now we're kinda at that weird place where it's like, okay,

David: 00:35:22

we've done the $100,000 films now.

David: 00:35:24

We've kinda grown to that level, and we could try to do that again, but

David: 00:35:28

we really feel like it's… You're kinda at a point where it's like

David: 00:35:30

you either stay at that little hobby level or you try to jump higher.

David: 00:35:33

But that takes getting more people involved, and so that's… We're in the

David: 00:35:37

process now of putting together pitches, uh, for people who are a little bit

David: 00:35:41

larger filmmakers than we are to see if they want to do something with us.

David: 00:35:45

Um, and it's time for that.

David: 00:35:46

We've kind of earned our stripes with that, with the films that

David: 00:35:48

we've had and the success that they've had with audiences.

David: 00:35:51

We now have resumes we can go to people with and say, "Hey, this is what we've

David: 00:35:54

done, and this is what we've done on the absolute, you know, making a purse out

David: 00:35:58

of the sow's ear kinda thing. You know, it's, it's, it… We… This is what

David: 00:36:01

we can do with a little bit. Imagine if we had an adequate funding for a, um,

David: 00:36:05

small, you know, food film what we could do, and here's what we'd like to do."

David: 00:36:08

And so now we're gonna use that to try to launch something into something a

David: 00:36:11

little bit, larger as far as budgets are

David: 00:36:13

concerned.

Geoff: 00:36:13

Cool.

Geoff: 00:36:14

Well, you obviously did them well.

Joseph: 00:36:15

we're working on a World War II film, uh, right now.

Joseph: 00:36:18

We're working on a World War II film, and so as you can imagine,

Joseph: 00:36:21

that is a lot more expensive.

Joseph: 00:36:23

and, uh, a period piece is, gonna be a lot more, so definitely hoping

Joseph: 00:36:27

to get some other folks involved

Geoff: 00:36:28

Yeah.

Geoff: 00:36:29

Well, as I was saying, you obviously did them well, for them even to get

Geoff: 00:36:33

the distribution and, uh, and, and to make money, make their money back and

Geoff: 00:36:37

more, uh, give you money to continue.

Geoff: 00:36:41

it's a very wise approach for people starting out.

Geoff: 00:36:44

It's a hard one because, it's easy for people to want to go big, like right

Geoff: 00:36:48

from the beginning and think you can't do it unless you do it with a mega budget.

Geoff: 00:36:52

And, um, you know, losing money doesn't help much

David: 00:36:56

No.

Geoff: 00:36:56

regards to being able to continue.

David: 00:36:58

And going into debt over it, I don't advise, because honestly, what,

David: 00:37:01

95% of independent films lose money?

David: 00:37:03

Or is it, like, 3 to 5% actually get their money back.

David: 00:37:07

So when you go into this project, do not, you know, mortgage your home

David: 00:37:10

and go make a space film because you likely won't get your money back.

David: 00:37:13

We've been blessed in that our money has come back to us

David: 00:37:16

each time around, and some.

David: 00:37:18

But that's, been because we've taken small steps and shot films

David: 00:37:21

that we knew we could shoot in the environments and the people that we had

Geoff: 00:37:25

Absolutely.

Geoff: 00:37:27

so let me ask you, What's next?

Geoff: 00:37:30

you're aiming to make, a war movie.

Geoff: 00:37:32

As you said, that's going to be more challenging with regards to budget, b-

Geoff: 00:37:36

out of necessity in order to make it.

Geoff: 00:37:38

do you feel that is gonna be your next film?

David: 00:37:41

It, it, it's really, at, at this point we've been doing

David: 00:37:44

this long enough now that we kinda have a garden of projects.

David: 00:37:46

We have like a little flower bed.

David: 00:37:49

And so we, we constantly planting seeds, trying to write new ideas, seeing what

David: 00:37:54

grows and what evolves on its own.

David: 00:37:56

And then some projects will just kinda wither on the vine and stop

David: 00:37:59

right then and there, and it's like we just kinda set that to the side.

David: 00:38:02

Suddenly another project will shoot up in, in intention or opportunity,

David: 00:38:06

or something will come up and we're like, "Oh, this film's doing something

David: 00:38:09

now." So we have the World War II film.

David: 00:38:10

We also have a, a series that we've just finished writing not too long ago

David: 00:38:14

that's gotten some little interest.

David: 00:38:15

So now we're putting together proof of concept short films on both of those,

David: 00:38:19

and we'll be presenting those to people and say, "Here's what we'd like to do.

David: 00:38:22

Here's our plan.

David: 00:38:23

Uh, anybody wanna do that with us?" So we gotta start pitching those projects to

David: 00:38:27

people, that we've now met in the industry through the films that we've done so far.

David: 00:38:31

And, um, fortunately we've been blessed to meet some really great people.

David: 00:38:34

So we're hoping that we can find a project that really takes off.

David: 00:38:36

So we're trying to work two or three projects at a time right

David: 00:38:39

now, pushing them all in different directions and see which plant blooms

David: 00:38:43

and grows and fruits the first.

David: 00:38:45

And so as filmmakers, you can't just lock onto one thing and say, "I'm gonna do this

David: 00:38:49

until I die," because you may get very, very old and it, it may never get made.

David: 00:38:53

So y- you hear Hollywood producers say, "I've been working on, I've been

David: 00:38:56

trying to get this made for 25 years." And like, oh, that can't be right.

David: 00:38:59

But it can be right.

David: 00:39:01

That actually can happen.

Speaker: 00:39:03

That's right

David: 00:39:03

It

Joseph: 00:39:04

It's not 24/7.

David: 00:39:06

go to bed.

Joseph: 00:39:07

It's not 24/7.

Joseph: 00:39:08

They're not working on it 24/7, but

David: 00:39:11

No.

Speaker: 00:39:12

in fact, They may not even be working on it every year in that,

David: 00:39:15

Right.

David: 00:39:15

We've got a drawer of scripts that we're pulling.

David: 00:39:17

We just keep adding scripts to our drawer of scripts until we find, you

David: 00:39:21

know, and, and, and one of them's gonna hit when it's supposed to

Geoff: 00:39:24

Yep, absolutely.

Geoff: 00:39:26

Um, so let's take a moment and tell us about, um, well, your latest

Geoff: 00:39:31

film, but if you wanna mention the others, where people can watch them.

Geoff: 00:39:35

Uh, I know that, uh, you've told me Due North is, is relaunching.

Geoff: 00:39:40

Has that happened or is it coming up real soon?

Geoff: 00:39:43

Tell us, uh, what people can expect and where they can find your films.

David: 00:39:46

Uh, Due North is relaunching on May 19th, and it will be out on

David: 00:39:49

streaming platforms, uh, uh, Prime, Tubi, uh, Apple TV, um, places like that.

David: 00:39:55

Uh, uh, it'll be out there, uh, in May.

David: 00:39:58

Between May and, uh, 19th and June 19th, it'll be going through those places.

David: 00:40:01

Uh, DVDs will be available through Walmart and places like that, um, come May 19th.

David: 00:40:06

Um, and it'll be called Due North, and so that's, that one's going on.

David: 00:40:09

There are other films.

David: 00:40:10

Uh, the, probably the easiest way to find them is they're, they're

David: 00:40:12

on major streaming platforms as well too, but there's, you know,

David: 00:40:15

you know, two other feature films that we've made that are available.

David: 00:40:18

And so those you can find at our website.

David: 00:40:20

We have actual links on our website that takes you to every platform that

David: 00:40:24

these movies can be seen on, and you can just click the link and it'll

David: 00:40:27

take you right to that platform.

Geoff: 00:40:28

Okay.

Geoff: 00:40:29

We'll put those links in our show notes, but, uh, tell us the name of your website

David: 00:40:33

Uh, it's, it's Cross Purposes, so it's, uh, crosspurposes.productions,

David: 00:40:37

and that's the name of the website

Geoff: 00:40:39

Crosspurposes.productions.

Geoff: 00:40:42

All right.

Geoff: 00:40:42

Before we finish up, I wanna ask you, maybe put you on the spot a little

Geoff: 00:40:45

bit, what advice would you give?

Geoff: 00:40:48

take a moment f- both of you, I'm gonna give both of you an

Geoff: 00:40:50

opportunity, Give us some words of wisdom that you'd like to pass on

Joseph: 00:40:54

um, I think the first thing that comes to mind, I, I got to like teach a

Joseph: 00:40:59

film acting class recently, and the thing that I left everyone with was just, Just

Joseph: 00:41:04

really think about why you want to do this and why you want to tell stories.

Joseph: 00:41:08

If you want to be famous, that's awesome.

Joseph: 00:41:11

There are a lot easier ways to be famous.

Joseph: 00:41:13

Please pick one of those.

Joseph: 00:41:15

You know, those, uh… If you want to influence people, go be an influencer.

Joseph: 00:41:19

That's an entire job now.

Joseph: 00:41:20

You know, um, this is just way too much work and if you're looking

Joseph: 00:41:24

for validation through other people, be honest with yourself about that.

Joseph: 00:41:28

because especially film, um, if you're in it for the audience reception, then

Joseph: 00:41:34

maybe think about doing theater because you get that, you get that right there.

Joseph: 00:41:39

You have an audience right in front of you.

Joseph: 00:41:41

Um, the way that you make stories in film nowadays, someone could be loving your

Joseph: 00:41:46

film in India, but you would never know, uh, because you're not, you're not there

Joseph: 00:41:51

watching it with them in, in a crowd.

Joseph: 00:41:53

And so, um, for me, particularly in filmmaking, whether you are,

Joseph: 00:41:58

uh, no matter what, department you are in, in the crew or, if you want

Joseph: 00:42:03

to be an actor, it all relates.

Joseph: 00:42:06

Uh, you really have to figure out why, why you need to, be doing this and why

Joseph: 00:42:11

you need to be telling these stories.

Joseph: 00:42:14

and for me, I know, especially as an actor, I'll just say I learn

Joseph: 00:42:19

something from each of my characters.

Joseph: 00:42:21

It doesn't matter how flawed they are, I learn something.

Joseph: 00:42:24

I mean, like Jason in Due North, who is, you know, uh, people could see and be

Joseph: 00:42:29

like, "What could you learn from him?

Joseph: 00:42:30

He flies off the handle at anything.

Joseph: 00:42:32

He has this horrible, rage and anger to him." And it's like, well, that

Joseph: 00:42:36

was actually perfect for me because, you know, growing up, uh, in a

Joseph: 00:42:40

Christian house, you can mistake, anger for being evil within itself.

Joseph: 00:42:45

And it's like, no, these are emotions God gave us.

Joseph: 00:42:47

We just need to learn, uh, what to do with them.

Joseph: 00:42:49

And so I never even let myself experience that emotion until

Joseph: 00:42:54

really Jason opened that up for me.

Joseph: 00:42:56

And yes, he took it three steps further than, you know, you maybe should.

Joseph: 00:43:00

But, it taught me something about myself and opened, uh, a part of myself up

Joseph: 00:43:05

that I hadn't really, faced before.

Joseph: 00:43:07

And so that's what I love is, is really experiencing other people's lives,

Joseph: 00:43:12

putting my feet in other people's shoes, walking a mile, and seeing what I learn

Joseph: 00:43:17

and, uh, taking something from that.

Joseph: 00:43:20

And so, uh, same thing as a, as a storyteller, you wanna do the same thing.

Joseph: 00:43:24

It's like, okay, if I'm gonna get on this rollercoaster, I'm gonna see what I can

Joseph: 00:43:28

learn and what sights I see and what, what memories I'm gonna take with me.

Joseph: 00:43:32

so yeah, I guess just decide what that is for you and be very prayerful, about

Joseph: 00:43:37

it, I would, add, just because it's a lot of work and it's a part of who you are

Joseph: 00:43:42

and you're sharing a part of who you are.

Joseph: 00:43:44

And so, just treat that with the weight that it deserves, I guess

Geoff: 00:43:49

Awesome.

Geoff: 00:43:50

Good advice.

Geoff: 00:43:51

Good advice.

Geoff: 00:43:52

Thank you so much.

Geoff: 00:43:53

What about you, David?

David: 00:43:54

Um, I've grilled in Joe and, and the people who

David: 00:43:57

work with me that, presenting stories for people is a service.

David: 00:44:00

It's not about you, and, and I appreciate Joe and the others in

David: 00:44:03

my crew who understand that, that we're not here to elevate ourselves.

David: 00:44:07

If we're here 'cause we wanna be in a movie or see our name on

David: 00:44:10

a movie, uh, do something else.

David: 00:44:11

You know, we don't, we don't need that kind of help.

David: 00:44:13

So you're, you're here as a servant.

David: 00:44:15

You're here to take your audience on a journey, someplace they haven't been

David: 00:44:19

before with people they are fascinated to learn about, and you're supposed

David: 00:44:23

to bring them back home again safe.

David: 00:44:24

And as a filmmaker, if you're not trustworthy, uh, to your audience, if

David: 00:44:29

they can't trust that you're gonna give them excellence, that you're gonna give

David: 00:44:33

them something that, that adds to their life and doesn't take away from it,

David: 00:44:37

uh, if you can't earn that trust, then, then don't, don't be the tour guide.

David: 00:44:40

You know what I'm saying?

David: 00:44:41

So, uh, That's a responsibility.

David: 00:44:43

We owe it, uh, because of who we are and whose we are.

David: 00:44:46

We owe that to our audience.

David: 00:44:48

And if you do it well, you will find you have friends in your

David: 00:44:53

audience who will look for you, and they will look for your work.

David: 00:44:55

If you do it poorly, you'll find an audience will feel betrayed

David: 00:44:58

or let down, and they… You're damaging the Christian film industry

David: 00:45:01

as well as your own business.

David: 00:45:03

So I know it's heavy, but that's just my honest truth.

David: 00:45:06

When it comes to making films, it's a responsibility, and we're servants,

David: 00:45:09

and we have to serve our audience well

Geoff: 00:45:11

Awesome.

Geoff: 00:45:12

Well, this has been a very interesting interview, and inspiring.

Geoff: 00:45:16

I'm really glad that we are able to share this with our audience.

Geoff: 00:45:19

thank you so much for your time today, guys.

Geoff: 00:45:21

Um, we'll definitely be getting your, links into our show notes, and I encourage

Geoff: 00:45:26

everybody to take a look for, your films,

Speaker: 00:45:29

so thanks again you guys.

Speaker: 00:45:31

I really appreciate it.

Speaker: 00:45:32

I, hope we get to cross paths and, connect again someday.

David: 00:45:35

Thank you,

David: 00:45:35

Geoff.

David: 00:45:36

We appreciate

: 00:45:36

Thank you

: 00:45:37

Thank you for your questions