Something New in the Vindication World

Matt: 00:00:00

Alright, we are back with the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast, I'm your host Matt Chastain.

Matt: 00:00:05

Way more importantly, my good friend Jared O'Flaherty is here for the second episode.

Matt: 00:00:10

Um, we talked the last episode, Jared, about the exciting release of Vindication Season 4 on both Angel and Redeem, and just to kind of remind listeners the first episode drops March, what,

Jarod: 00:00:21

20th, March 20th.

Matt: 00:00:22

March 20th, 2025.

Matt: 00:00:25

Let's go back a little bit.

Matt: 00:00:27

cause the reason I even reached out to you because you and I've been trying to kind of put this together for a couple of months right now, but you kind of wanted to wait until some things dropped.

Matt: 00:00:33

But the reason I reached out to you is because of a, update you put on social media, Vindication is on the way while we eagerly await the season, the release of season four, we're thrilled to announce that pre production has already begun on a follow up project.

Matt: 00:00:46

That's going to pick up after the events of season four.

Matt: 00:00:49

Now it's not going to be a season five.

Matt: 00:00:51

Uh, this next chapter though will adopt new format while retaining the signature storytelling that our fans have come to cherish.

Matt: 00:00:59

Cast and crew opportunities on this exciting new project, codenamed The Special, will be announced in early 2025.

Matt: 00:01:07

So is this something that you're ready to announce?

Matt: 00:01:09

Because I don't know what in the heck you're talking about here.

Jarod: 00:01:12

Okay, yeah, I'll talk about it here, and if I get in trouble, well then, oops, sorry,

Matt: 00:01:17

Jared, you're, you're the, the buck stops with you,

Jarod: 00:01:19

Who am I gonna get in trouble with?

Jarod: 00:01:20

Yeah, so, no, I think

Matt: 00:01:22

that is what's going to happen.

Matt: 00:01:22

Your wife's going to yell at you.

Matt: 00:01:24

How dare you?

Jarod: 00:01:25

Yeah, so, you know, we finished production of Season 4 in May of 2024.

Jarod: 00:01:31

It took another five to six months to finish up all the post on that, and then as we were waiting to find out where it was going to land, obviously the answer to that was Angel and RedeemTV, Uh, you know, time was passing, and we were losing some momentum of production, and while we weren't in a spot yet to Greenlight a season 5.

Jarod: 00:01:49

That's a, you know, that's an 18 month, two year type project.

Jarod: 00:01:52

There was this energy of, of let's, let's keep doing something in the Vindication world.

Jarod: 00:01:57

So it wasn't necessarily my idea, but I was approached you know, Hey, in 2025, could we do maybe a, super episode or a mini feature?

Jarod: 00:02:05

Something in the Vindication world with our same characters that would take place after season 4, but It's not a full season five, you know, we can't commit to that right now, just because we want to see how season four plays out.

Jarod: 00:02:17

And so, I said, yeah, let's do it.

Jarod: 00:02:19

there were some objectives in there.

Jarod: 00:02:21

We want it to be something that if you've never seen any of Vindication before, you could sit down and watch this as a standalone, and it makes sense to you.

Jarod: 00:02:29

Um, at the same time, we didn't want it to be something that would cancel out the possibility of a Season 5 down the road.

Jarod: 00:02:36

So we don't want, uh, maybe our lead character to fall off a cliff or, you know, something happen that you couldn't continue with a Season 5.

Jarod: 00:02:44

So, as a writer now, that suddenly became like, okay, I've got things tugging in different directions now.

Jarod: 00:02:49

It, you know, it has to come after Season 4.

Jarod: 00:02:52

It needs to have a standalone storyline that can demonstrate what we're good at in vindication, but be accessible to brand new audiences, and it's not going to have a full feature length runtime, but it's also not going to be 30 minutes.

Jarod: 00:03:05

Anyway, so you got all these

Matt: 00:03:07

That's some parameters you got to work

Jarod: 00:03:09

Yeah, yeah, you got all these things to juggle at once, you know, and try to come up with a story for that.

Jarod: 00:03:14

but yeah, it's been done.

Jarod: 00:03:15

It has been written.

Jarod: 00:03:17

and we're about a week or so away from casting.

Jarod: 00:03:19

I don't know when this will air, but mid to late February we'll start casting for it.

Jarod: 00:03:23

We've got about 25 roles.

Jarod: 00:03:25

Uh, some of them are very juicy.

Jarod: 00:03:27

Uh, some of the type that actors like to jump into and, and have some fun with.

Jarod: 00:03:31

Not just, you know, uh talking head, or, you know, hey, let me come in and ramble off some stuff to help the story keep going.

Jarod: 00:03:37

No, we're talking characters with depth.

Jarod: 00:03:39

So, um, that's gonna happen, and then end of March, early April is when we're gonna shoot this thing.

Matt: 00:03:44

is so exciting.

Matt: 00:03:46

I, the parameters are interesting.

Matt: 00:03:48

Look, as writers, we all have to deal with the kind of naturally imposed parameters of the need of structure.

Matt: 00:03:54

The save the cat beats.

Matt: 00:03:55

We all have to work with them when that, whether it's a feature or a, episode of a series.

Matt: 00:04:00

But you're adding on top of structure these other parameters.

Matt: 00:04:03

don't know about you, but sometimes I find it more fun.

Matt: 00:04:05

It's more challenging, but more fun to be creative within a series of parameters that you have.

Jarod: 00:04:12

Yeah, I mean, I would probably prefer artistic parameters, you know?

Jarod: 00:04:15

Like, hey, let's, this needs to happen in a big city, and you need to have this number of characters, and you need to have a, uh, a unicycle show up at one point, and, uh, you know, those type of artistic parameters.

Jarod: 00:04:25

But when it's storytelling that you're going much time can I spend establishing these characters that oh and here's the other thing for audiences who know all four seasons This needs to just go smoothly for them as well not step back So for all of those fans, it needs to work for them, but also brand new people and then it can't wrap up the series but it also does need to have the possibility of This could be the end of it.

Jarod: 00:04:49

So we don't want to You know, create a whole lot of new storylines and characters and all of that.

Jarod: 00:04:54

So

Matt: 00:04:55

we need you to be all things to all people for a zero budget, but make it like way better than anything's ever been, but don't ruin the past or the future.

Matt: 00:05:04

Can you do that?

Jarod: 00:05:06

so

Matt: 00:05:07

you do that?

Matt: 00:05:07

How you feel about it?

Jarod: 00:05:08

we, we did, I mean, uh, I sent some of our recurring cast who will be back, um, I sent the scripts out to them like last week.

Jarod: 00:05:16

Uh, first one came back said amazing script I cried and I'm thinking okay, that's that's good And then the second person was like, hey, I don't know how you did this, but it's really fabulous.

Jarod: 00:05:25

I'm excited to do it So that was good feedback from the cast members, uh on what we're doing now, and they were already booked So it's not like they were trying to you know, puff up my ego or whatever to get on the show They they they could have said what they wanted.

Matt: 00:05:38

They're honest with you.

Matt: 00:05:39

You're a kind of guy.

Matt: 00:05:40

You can take it.

Jarod: 00:05:40

Yeah.

Jarod: 00:05:41

Yeah And well, one of them had two suggestions for changes in there one of them.

Jarod: 00:05:44

I said, yeah, it's a good change The other one i'm not gonna do it but We have that relationship.

Jarod: 00:05:49

And Todd, I don't know if I should share this,

Jarod: 00:05:52

um, but but, but it's, it's a good behind the scenes.

Jarod: 00:05:55

So I send out offer memos, because I'm producer and director.

Jarod: 00:05:58

I send out the offer memos and the script at the same time.

Jarod: 00:06:01

This one's about a 75 page script, okay?

Jarod: 00:06:03

Typically, the actor's gonna take a couple of days.

Jarod: 00:06:06

They want to read over the script, decide whether or not everything matches up with their, uh, preferences to work on it.

Jarod: 00:06:13

And then they send you back the offer memo.

Jarod: 00:06:14

I send it over.

Jarod: 00:06:16

And with definitely not enough time to have read it, I get the signed thing back from Todd Terry, our lead, you know, signed, I'm in, let's go.

Jarod: 00:06:22

He couldn't even read the first page yet, so, but what that says to me is the confidence, the trust that we have as an actor, lead actor, filmmaker, that even if there is something in there that doesn't quite fit for him, he knows that we have that flexibility to work together and make it happen.

Jarod: 00:06:40

So to me, it's just a huge compliment that he would do that, you know, and he's He's not a guy out there that's begging for work either.

Jarod: 00:06:47

I mean, if you look around anywhere, you will probably see him.

Jarod: 00:06:50

He's doing lots of stuff, but has that confidence to, uh, come back and, and do it with us.

Matt: 00:06:56

I haven't spoken in person to Todd that much, but we've spoken a little bit here and there online and what he did does not surprise me a bit because when we have spoken, he has expressed nothing but total confidence in this series A. total love for the role total love and trust of you as a writer, director, producer, uh, janitor, um, editor.

Matt: 00:07:20

Uh, forklift operator, uh, all things Jared.

Matt: 00:07:24

So yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all.

Matt: 00:07:27

um, you said, look, there's a lot of actors who listen to this, a lot of agents who listened to this.

Matt: 00:07:31

So you said casting is coming up.

Matt: 00:07:33

Does that mean that you've already auditioned and now you're going into the casting process or you're about to put it out for auditions?

Jarod: 00:07:38

to announce it, about to put it out for auditions.

Jarod: 00:07:40

Now, historically, we have used actors access, uh, breakdown, uh, Express, you know that goes out to all the agents and done all of our casting We're actually launching a new platform Around the same time that will be used for this and so we will have it on all of our social media for people that Want to jump in free accounts for actors to set up their profile So it's not a not a money grab or anything, but a new platform that I think Improves on a lot of the things missing in the the stuff that's out there.

Jarod: 00:08:08

If you said a lot of actors Watch one of the things that's really cool about this new platform We're doing is that as an actor when you submit for something you kind of have a tracker to see how far along you are In the process, you know If your your submission gets tagged for you know, possibly to be taped you get to see that if you're dismissed They're no longer in contention.

Jarod: 00:08:26

You see that as well.

Jarod: 00:08:27

So instead of this open ended Are they still thinking about it?

Jarod: 00:08:31

Have they cast?

Jarod: 00:08:31

What's going on?

Jarod: 00:08:32

You can actually see if you're still in contention or if you've been moved on to the final round, which I think is good for actors to know how they're doing.

Jarod: 00:08:39

Where am I in the process?

Jarod: 00:08:40

Did I get a fair shake?

Jarod: 00:08:41

Did I get a fair chance?

Jarod: 00:08:42

And so to me, that's one of many things that has me very excited about it.

Matt: 00:08:46

That is amazing news.

Matt: 00:08:48

I'll tell you that as an actor is that obviously we can't bug the producer.

Matt: 00:08:53

Not every actor on your list can bug you determine whether or not they're no longer in contention.

Matt: 00:08:57

And you can't email everybody to text, call, email until they're not in contention anymore.

Matt: 00:09:02

But, sitting around wondering am I going to get a phone call or not is kind of a miserable experience.

Matt: 00:09:06

So I absolutely love that

Jarod: 00:09:08

Or even, uh, have they watched my tape yet?

Jarod: 00:09:10

Did they even watch my tape?

Jarod: 00:09:12

Did they, you know, did they look at it?

Jarod: 00:09:13

Did they see it?

Jarod: 00:09:14

Okay, they did.

Jarod: 00:09:15

Did I get moved on to the next round of consideration?

Jarod: 00:09:18

Or was I, you know, cut out at the beginning?

Matt: 00:09:20

amen.

Matt: 00:09:21

Well, I look forward to the, uh, the role that I'm sure you've written for a middle aged white bearded, kind of, sort of smart Alec, sort of obnoxious, but lovable character that I'll audition for.

Matt: 00:09:32

So I can't wait to find that role in

Matt: 00:09:34

there.

Matt: 00:09:34

And then I'll, I'll track my way all the way through.

Jarod: 00:09:37

I mean, if we do a season five, we will have to make that happen, you

Matt: 00:09:40

If, or when, come on, bro.

Jarod: 00:09:42

I'm an if guy, you know, I, I'm always, I always leave the door

Matt: 00:09:47

Well, the demand's going to be there because people love this series,

Jarod: 00:09:50

I think what's going to happen when it comes out, especially on angel, they have a pretty good audience, a pretty good following people are going to watch the first three, they're going to get hooked and then season four.

Jarod: 00:09:59

And then as soon as that last, the credits roll on the final episode, what's going on with season five.

Jarod: 00:10:05

So I really, have a hard time thinking they're going to watch and go, yeah, that was enough.

Jarod: 00:10:09

Let's move on to something else.

Matt: 00:10:11

agree.

Matt: 00:10:11

And what you should tell everybody is, look, don't bug me about when season five is coming out.

Matt: 00:10:15

Talk to Angel.

Matt: 00:10:17

Bug those guys,

Jarod: 00:10:17

That's the same thing.

Jarod: 00:10:18

Yeah, that's what I'll say.

Jarod: 00:10:19

They've asked me to do kind of some promo clips for the Guild and stuff.

Jarod: 00:10:23

And I'm like, I'll do them, but I'm talking about Season 5 the whole time.

Jarod: 00:10:26

You know, I'm gonna, yeah, I was gonna say, let's

Matt: 00:10:29

that leads me into another whole topic here is that like, can wear all the hats you wear and I don't think you There's very few people other than maybe what Trey Parker and Matt Stone with South Park, who probably have as many hats to wear on and as much kind of control over their, their product a product that's at this level.

Matt: 00:10:47

Um, but distribution is one that you, you can't be everything.

Matt: 00:10:50

And so we, you, are relying upon distribution you probably had your challenges, uh, but everybody has challenges in distribution.

Matt: 00:10:57

And so it's, nice to have some distribution partners, that have, helped you get this far, because I'll tell you this.

Matt: 00:11:03

it's rare that an indie succeeds in a feature, but I don't know of many other examples where an indie succeeds as a series like this one has.

Matt: 00:11:13

And I guess a lot of that's just about finding the distribution.

Matt: 00:11:15

So, I don't know how you crack the nut.

Matt: 00:11:17

Can you

Matt: 00:11:18

tell me how you crack the nut on this?

Jarod: 00:11:19

I wish there was a formula that I could share, uh, so that way I could go do it again with a few other projects.

Jarod: 00:11:25

Um, but I really don't know what that one is.

Matt: 00:11:28

Credit to God.

Matt: 00:11:29

That's it.

Matt: 00:11:29

God's

Jarod: 00:11:30

That's what I was about

Jarod: 00:11:30

to say.

Jarod: 00:11:31

People of faith would understand what prayer can do, uh, when the, unexpected or the unbelievable suddenly becomes reality.

Jarod: 00:11:38

So, uh, uh, there's been a lot of that along the way for Vindication.

Jarod: 00:11:42

And like you said, it shouldn't happen.

Jarod: 00:11:44

It shouldn't be here.

Jarod: 00:11:45

You know, our first episode, our pilot episode, the wasn't a pilot, it was a short film, made it for 15, 000, right?

Jarod: 00:11:51

And that was, you know, half of it was volunteers on there.

Jarod: 00:11:54

You know, we were going to do festivals for about a year and then put it online, move on.

Jarod: 00:11:58

And yet now here we are, we've finished a fourth season and about to work on something else.

Jarod: 00:12:03

I want to say it comes out runtime to around 11 to 12 feature films the runtime of all of this that we have done that just started again with 15, 000 in a short film.

Matt: 00:12:15

again, I'm not trying to, blow smoke for you or anything like that, or, or, put you on some kind of an idolized pedestal.

Matt: 00:12:21

It's, it's God, but I will say to people listening, you're not going to stumble upon this kind of luck.

Matt: 00:12:28

It, the only reason I think it happened is because Jared is able to do all of these things and do all of these things well, while still being able to attract brilliant, Artists and filmmakers to work alongside of you.

Matt: 00:12:41

That's, that's how I see it from the outside

Matt: 00:12:43

looking in.

Jarod: 00:12:44

You know, you've used words in this podcast and the previous one of brilliant and genius and all those kinds of things, which I appreciate.

Jarod: 00:12:50

I don't mind hearing them.

Jarod: 00:12:51

You can

Jarod: 00:12:51

throw in a few more of those if you want to, I

Jarod: 00:12:53

don't

Matt: 00:12:53

No, I would never say those to you privately.

Matt: 00:12:55

You

Matt: 00:12:55

know that.

Jarod: 00:12:55

Exactly.

Jarod: 00:12:56

Um, but I think, and I hope that when meet me, when they hear me on a podcast like this, uh, when I, the few times I get a chance to speak that they go, you know, this Jared kind of comes across as the most average, just regular guy

Jarod: 00:13:10

out

Jarod: 00:13:10

there,

Jarod: 00:13:10

you know, good.

Jarod: 00:13:11

Yeah.

Jarod: 00:13:12

Thank you.

Jarod: 00:13:12

Thanks.

Jarod: 00:13:13

Thank you.

Jarod: 00:13:13

You know, like, he doesn't come across as this brilliant or this artistic, or it's just, it feels like a regular dude, you know, who's just, but yet, look what has happened, what God has done with this.

Jarod: 00:13:25

And again, surrounding myself with great people, you know, who, who are gifted and passionate about what we are doing.

Jarod: 00:13:30

So, but I like that.

Jarod: 00:13:32

want that.

Jarod: 00:13:33

I don't want people to go, Oh, this guy's so, I could never do what he's doing.

Jarod: 00:13:36

Instead, I want to be like, He's not even as good as me.

Jarod: 00:13:39

So if

Jarod: 00:13:40

he's doing it,

Matt: 00:13:41

being so great at all these things.

Matt: 00:13:42

It's about you having to, right?

Matt: 00:13:43

That's what it is.

Matt: 00:13:44

You've, done the work and you've put more into this than, than I think most people are willing to put into anything.

Matt: 00:13:50

That's the thing is you've been

Matt: 00:13:51

willing to do it.

Jarod: 00:13:52

yeah, it's not without sacrifice.

Jarod: 00:13:53

I see some of these guys that are single guys, or maybe they're married and they got one kid or something.

Jarod: 00:13:58

I, I have five children in my family.

Jarod: 00:13:59

The oldest as well.

Jarod: 00:14:00

I still call it children, because it's my daughter, but she's 20 and then the youngest is 2, and then I've got others mixed in between, like, that's a lot of responsibility, a lot of work, you know?

Jarod: 00:14:09

Uh, and my wife, she works in the home, not outside the home, so, as far as the finances and all that sort of stuff, you know, we're not a family that just has everything, uh, I don't have a trust fund that feeds us or anything, so it's very much a battle with lots of sacrifice and lots of work.

Jarod: 00:14:24

I just think back, man, imagine those single guys, like, they don't have the family, they don't only have to provide for themselves.

Jarod: 00:14:30

They could work 20 hours a day, you know, and get all this stuff done, and yet, uh, here I am, wearing all these hats on top of, heh heh, the other responsibilities, yeah, and then change diapers.

Jarod: 00:14:41

I'm still changing diapers right now, so, heh,

Matt: 00:14:43

your age, bro, I don't know how you'd do that.

Matt: 00:14:44

I couldn't, I couldn't start over.

Matt: 00:14:46

Thank God my youngest is, is eight.

Matt: 00:14:48

But at forty, you're saying you're forty two now?

Matt: 00:14:50

Still changing diapers, bless you.

Matt: 00:14:52

Well, that's okay.

Matt: 00:14:53

You know, we'll, we'll have baby six and seven come along pretty soon and you'll be pretty experienced in, in diaper

Matt: 00:14:57

changing.

Jarod: 00:14:58

will not like you if I share that

Matt: 00:15:00

Ha ha ha ha

Jarod: 00:15:01

that.

Jarod: 00:15:02

you're, you're, she likes you, when I say Matt Chastain, she goes, oh, if I tell her you said that, she goes, oh, heh heh.

Matt: 00:15:08

Not, no more, no more!

Matt: 00:15:10

There was some, movie about the, the Clampetts and Hatfields and McCoys, or wait, they're not Clampetts, Hatfields and McCoys, and I remember the guy comes home from the Civil War and his wife looks at him, she's like, I cannot bear another birth.

Matt: 00:15:21

It feels like that sometimes.

Matt: 00:15:23

But hey, you're populating the world wonderful kids who are going to be raised the right way.

Matt: 00:15:27

So,

Jarod: 00:15:27

And if I may, as we speak of one of my children, just within the past week, uh, we were having a family conversation in the kitchen.

Jarod: 00:15:34

I can't remember the topic exactly.

Jarod: 00:15:37

One of my daughters, my 17 year old, brings up, she's like, Hey, this scenario we're talking about, it's kind of like in the movie Small Group,

Jarod: 00:15:45

remember?

Jarod: 00:15:45

Where they took pieces out of, out of all these interviews and spliced them together and, you know, took all the worst moments and put them together to really Shaped

Jarod: 00:15:54

the story.

Jarod: 00:15:54

Yeah, and I thought oh isn't that cool that uh, she brought up small group

Matt: 00:15:59

Well, look, that up.

Matt: 00:16:00

Not to bring up my movie, wanted to share this with you.

Matt: 00:16:03

Because I'm not sure if I ever told you this.

Matt: 00:16:05

our last episode, we kind of got into some fun, personal, behind the scenes stuff of me and Jared.

Matt: 00:16:09

But, Jared randomly hit me up and I know that God was involved because it was probably at the best time he ever could have hit me up.

Matt: 00:16:16

Um, it was Halloween of 2020.

Matt: 00:16:19

And you know how the world is locked down in 2020, and I'm a very claustrophobic person, and so all that went on in 2020 really gave me a lot of stress.

Matt: 00:16:30

I'm not the kind of person who you give rules to, and even if they're, I'm not gonna debate whether or not a lot of those rules were good or bad, or, Geoff and, um, Jaclyn will, Beat me with a, with a stick for talking politics.

Matt: 00:16:43

I will say that it was just a very, very uncomfortable world for everybody, but it was probably worse for me too, because we were still trying to get small group put out.

Matt: 00:16:50

It was a struggle.

Matt: 00:16:51

We had had some fraud happened that cost us all this money and possibly the release.

Matt: 00:16:56

It was just a bad time.

Matt: 00:16:58

And I remember I was, I took my family camping, in an RV for Halloween and Jared hit me up and said, man, I want to talk to you.

Matt: 00:17:04

and he reached out and said, he had enjoyed the movie and that he had this.

Matt: 00:17:08

Project and wanted to perhaps bring me in on it.

Matt: 00:17:11

And, it could not have come at a better time for me, for someone whom I respect to reach out and go, Hey man, I respect your work as well.

Matt: 00:17:18

Um, you have no idea what that, did for me in that moment, because, uh, I think that's when, we need each other the most and when God, brings people together, the most is, in those times when we really, really, really need it.

Jarod: 00:17:29

Yeah, on my side of that story, very briefly, I had seen an advertisement, I want to say, on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, something, for this film, and being a filmmaker, I looked at it and said, Hey, the acting in this looks good, the quality, even the premise looks good, so I'm going to randomly buy the Blu ray for this thing, you know, I guess I must have had some spare money at the

Jarod: 00:17:47

time,

Matt: 00:17:47

for your 10.

Jarod: 00:17:48

yeah.

Jarod: 00:17:49

think that's about the only time I've ever done that.

Jarod: 00:17:51

Anyway, I get it, I bring my wife in, we all sit down to watch it, and just really enjoyed the movie.

Jarod: 00:17:56

And I remember thinking as I'm watching, I have no business being in filmmaking because this is so good and my stuff is like not even close to it.

Jarod: 00:18:05

It was between seasons one and two.

Jarod: 00:18:07

And so, credits roll, I'm going, who wrote this?

Jarod: 00:18:10

Who created it?

Jarod: 00:18:10

And then I see this Matt Chastain, I'm like, well that was one of the actors, that was one of the guys who was in it.

Jarod: 00:18:16

But I mean, it was not encouraging.

Jarod: 00:18:18

It was, to me, a little deflating because it was so well done, so well put together.

Jarod: 00:18:22

So I, you know, did the lookup on Facebook.

Jarod: 00:18:24

Okay, seems like a regular guy.

Jarod: 00:18:25

And that's where the message went, just because I was so impressed with the storytelling.

Jarod: 00:18:29

And when we went through the process of the episode you did for Vindication after that, I learned a lot from you about storytelling, about writing.

Jarod: 00:18:36

The one that sticks out the most is, how you told me in the script, you don't want stuff to be so and so is this or is that.

Jarod: 00:18:42

If the word is is there, you want to minimize that.

Jarod: 00:18:44

So anytime now, season four, when I'm writing Vindication, when those is lines start creeping in, I'm like, Oh, Matt, Matt, get mad if I got

Matt: 00:18:52

Is, is not an action.

Matt: 00:18:53

Is, is not an

Jarod: 00:18:54

Yes.

Jarod: 00:18:54

Now, do they get left in occasionally?

Jarod: 00:18:56

You know, I'll sprinkle in two or three that where they're needed.

Jarod: 00:19:00

I've looked at some Hollywood level professional scripts of series and they have them in there as well.

Jarod: 00:19:04

So, but to minimize it is, a great thing for writers as a technique to make sure you're writing is quality instead of just is, is, is, is, is for all these stories.

Matt: 00:19:14

Well, I appreciate it.

Matt: 00:19:15

Well, look, man, I, I'm humbled to hear that.

Matt: 00:19:17

Uh, one of us is, entering into season four and about to have a, mid level season five, and we'll probably go on to season five.

Matt: 00:19:24

So I would say that, uh, you're.

Matt: 00:19:27

your feeling of, despair was, unjustified completely because you've done so well.

Matt: 00:19:32

your writing is absolutely brilliant.

Matt: 00:19:33

the show Vindication is absolutely brilliant.

Matt: 00:19:36

I mean, it's obviously it's one of, it's one of everybody's favorite, um, within the, the kind of the, the faith, um, I don't wanna say faith-based, but faith friendly genre.

Matt: 00:19:45

So, man, um, I can't wait to dive into season four.

Matt: 00:19:48

You got like a, a link you can send boy, just so I can go ahead and get a teaser I won't share it with nobody.

Matt: 00:19:53

Probably

Jarod: 00:19:53

I like to protect the integrity of the story at all costs.

Jarod: 00:19:57

And for that reason, uh, Todd Terry has not seen season four yet.

Jarod: 00:20:00

So

Jarod: 00:20:01

I don't,

Matt: 00:20:02

I wanted by the way.

Jarod: 00:20:03

yes, I don't know that I can share it with

Matt: 00:20:05

Good for you.

Matt: 00:20:06

Good.

Matt: 00:20:06

I'm gonna fly to Dallas.

Matt: 00:20:07

and we're gonna go in your office and I'm gonna watch it with you.

Matt: 00:20:09

That's

Jarod: 00:20:10

You, you do that.

Jarod: 00:20:10

We can watch, we'll consider that a creative review session.

Matt: 00:20:14

There you go, Jared O'Flaherty, my old friend, my good buddy.

Matt: 00:20:18

Um, Hey, Thank you for taking some time out of your crazy busy schedule for joining us on the Faith and Family Filmmaker Podcast and man, I just, I like everybody else cannot wait for season four and we can't wait for this special project coming out afterwards.

Matt: 00:20:32

So, um, just can't thank you enough, brother.

Jarod: 00:20:34

Yeah, no, I appreciate being on here.

Jarod: 00:20:36

And hopefully we get to do this again a couple of years down the road.

Jarod: 00:20:38

And we're talking about other projects or season, whatever.

Jarod: 00:20:42

And, that'll mean, good things have happened.

Matt: 00:20:44

Season nine of Vindication.

Matt: 00:20:45

I wanted to scoop on that.