Tips for makeup Artists with Deborah Rutherford

Jaclyn: 00:00:00

Hey, it's Jaclyn.

Jaclyn: 00:00:01

You're listening to the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast.

Jaclyn: 00:00:04

I have Geoff with me.

Jaclyn: 00:00:05

And today we have Deborah Rutherford, a makeup artist, and we've already spoken with her in the first part of the interview.

Jaclyn: 00:00:13

And now in the members only portion, we want to get into some deeper details.

Jaclyn: 00:00:18

So Deborah, can you share with us, maybe some unique experiences or some of the differences between working on a larger set versus an independent film set?

Deborah: 00:00:28

Well, on the, faith based movie, Southern Gospel, it was a, they call it lower tier.

Deborah: 00:00:34

Still a, a union film, but it's, lower tier, which means lower budget.

Deborah: 00:00:38

So often when you work on those, And we wanted to work on it because it's a great story, good cast and everything, but it's always the worry of, do we have enough money, to make it look good?

Deborah: 00:00:47

Do we have enough time with what they want?

Deborah: 00:00:49

You know, because even if something's lower budget...

Jaclyn: 00:00:52

yeah.

Deborah: 00:00:53

It's just you know, your work ethic, you want to do the best job that you can.

Deborah: 00:00:56

The main difference for me between the two is your manpower...

Deborah: 00:01:00

is one of them.

Deborah: 00:01:02

So on an independent film, you kind of run around doing everything, right?

Deborah: 00:01:06

And often you just don't have the people that you need, so you just try to figure out ways, you know,?

Deborah: 00:01:11

How are we gonna get all those people powdered, you know?

Deborah: 00:01:14

And thank goodness we've always had wonderful people that will come work with us and help us out.

Deborah: 00:01:21

And, um, for spending money on things, you know.

Deborah: 00:01:24

One way that I've always gotten by that is I have relationships with a lot of the, um, makeup companies.

Deborah: 00:01:29

So as soon as I'm doing a film, I send them an email, and I'm not shy about it at all.

Deborah: 00:01:35

Like this is my wishlist.

Jaclyn: 00:01:37

Oh, wow..

Deborah: 00:01:38

I'll put down everything I want on that wishlist.

Jaclyn: 00:01:40

Oh, wow.

Deborah: 00:01:42

And I'll even say, I'm sorry if it's obnoxious, you know.

Deborah: 00:01:45

And if I'm working on something where we really don't have a budget, I'll even say that.

Deborah: 00:01:49

And I'll try to get them a credit ,because sometimes they'll give them a credit.

Deborah: 00:01:53

But over the years that's built a relationship, and so that helps supplement at least the beauty part of it, you know?

Deborah: 00:02:01

And then you just learn to make a lot of things yourself, that sort of thing, but that's probably the main difference there.

Deborah: 00:02:07

So when we recently watched, my husband and I, recently watched Southern Gospel, there was a moment of nervousness, like, is it going to look good?

Deborah: 00:02:16

You know, cause we had to make the beard.

Deborah: 00:02:18

We had to make the mustache.

Deborah: 00:02:19

We had to make the prosthetics.

Deborah: 00:02:21

And they looked really good.

Deborah: 00:02:22

I was like, you know, we're like sitting there going, Honey, we did a really good job.

Jaclyn: 00:02:26

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:02:28

Oh, that's nice.

Deborah: 00:02:28

We're the first, if it, doesn't look good.

Jaclyn: 00:02:30

Right.

Jaclyn: 00:02:31

Yeah.

Deborah: 00:02:32

but often you can....

Deborah: 00:02:34

say you're working on a really high budget movie, sometimes they'll just want to throw something in, or what they had planned and you had prepped and made isn't now working.

Deborah: 00:02:44

And so you have to go back to that thinking out of the box, that kind of old school.

Deborah: 00:02:48

Like, it's still very skilled and that's where the skill comes in.

Deborah: 00:02:52

Like the more hours that you've done this, the more.

Deborah: 00:02:55

Shows you've been on, the more movies you've been on, you can bring that to the table.

Deborah: 00:02:59

And that...

Deborah: 00:03:00

something in my early of career I really was aware of.

Deborah: 00:03:03

I was like, okay, I'm doing too many beauty shows.

Deborah: 00:03:08

They're never going to let me touch a prosthetic.

Deborah: 00:03:10

So then I would not take the beauty shows, which maybe I would get more money, and I would take special effects show.

Jaclyn: 00:03:18

But it's like a career choice so

Jaclyn: 00:03:20

that you don't

Jaclyn: 00:03:21

get typecast.

Deborah: 00:03:22

for me, it was just so I could be well rounded because we, had these dear friends of ours that told us in the beginning, You don't want to specialize right now.

Deborah: 00:03:31

You want to be handy.

Deborah: 00:03:33

You want be the person that if your actress needs to look pretty, you make her pretty.

Deborah: 00:03:39

If she needs a bruise, you put that bruise on her.

Deborah: 00:03:42

If she needs a burn, you put that burn on her.

Deborah: 00:03:46

You know, if your male actor, Shaved his beard off and wasn't supposed to and now you need to put it on you want to be able to do that.

Deborah: 00:03:55

you know?

Deborah: 00:03:55

And so we were told right in the beginning by this lovely couple, Kenny and Karen Myers and basically they said if you want to buy a house you have to learn how to do all of that and so part of learning how to do all that...

Deborah: 00:04:07

you can practice for hours on your own, but then when you get on a show and we call it background makeup....

Deborah: 00:04:14

You get on show doing background makeup for days...

Deborah: 00:04:17

um, you're doing a Western.

Deborah: 00:04:19

You're going to come out of that really knowing how to do some good beard work, right?

Deborah: 00:04:23

Or you get on a show and now you're doing zombies.

Deborah: 00:04:25

Well, you're going to come out of that knowing how to do really good zombies.

Deborah: 00:04:28

Or you're on a show doing you know, 1920s beauty makeup.

Deborah: 00:04:32

So you kind of want to, I think, spread it around so that you get well trained in all those areas.

Deborah: 00:04:40

Because if you don't, and what I see happen a lot, you'll get pigeonholed into one area.

Deborah: 00:04:45

Now it does happen if you're a female, sometimes You might not be their first choice for special effects.

Deborah: 00:04:50

Or if you're a male, you may not be their first choice for beauty makeup.

Deborah: 00:04:54

Only because people have sometimes perceived ideas of what should be.

Deborah: 00:04:59

Although in early makeup in Hollywood, it was all males.

Deborah: 00:05:04

There is all those beautiful stars.

Deborah: 00:05:07

Starlet makeups were all done by men.

Deborah: 00:05:09

it was just how it was back then.

Deborah: 00:05:11

You know, I think females only did hair.

Deborah: 00:05:13

but it doesn't mean you can't do it.

Deborah: 00:05:16

Back to the earlier interview and we talked about when, Dick Smith told me what I was up against, As long as you know, you know, then you can work around that.

Deborah: 00:05:25

Don't be offended.

Deborah: 00:05:26

Just understand that it could exist, and then just make yourself valuable with your skill level.

Deborah: 00:05:32

Sometimes people will call me and say, I can't get hired!

Deborah: 00:05:35

And I will say, it's usually three things.

Deborah: 00:05:38

1.

Deborah: 00:05:38

Your attitude.

Deborah: 00:05:39

Do you need an attitude adjustment?

Deborah: 00:05:41

Is your attitude chasing people away?

Deborah: 00:05:45

Your skill level.

Deborah: 00:05:47

Do you need to add some more skills to the toolbox?

Deborah: 00:05:50

Is your equipment not clean?

Deborah: 00:05:52

Have you taken any of the new classes?

Deborah: 00:05:55

Your skill level, like you need to up that maybe.

Deborah: 00:05:58

Is it your network?

Deborah: 00:06:00

Like, did the people you used to work for, are they still department heads?

Deborah: 00:06:05

Did they leave to go be a personal makeup artist?

Deborah: 00:06:07

Now they can't hire you.

Deborah: 00:06:09

Did they leave to get married and have a baby and now they can't?

Deborah: 00:06:12

They're just not around to hire you anymore.

Deborah: 00:06:14

Like, Is it your network?

Deborah: 00:06:16

Did you move?

Deborah: 00:06:17

And so if it's your network, then you need to start planting seeds.

Deborah: 00:06:21

And it takes a really long time.

Deborah: 00:06:23

It takes a long time to plant seeds, but start planting them.

Deborah: 00:06:27

I remember this one, makeup artist who I would call once a year and ask him if I could work for him and send him my resume And he'd say I already have my team.

Deborah: 00:06:36

And I said, that's great.

Deborah: 00:06:37

I just wanted to reach out to you and get to know you.

Deborah: 00:06:40

And so about after five years he really felt like we knew each other

Jaclyn: 00:06:44

Oh, you've had so many encounters already.

Jaclyn: 00:06:48

You've

Deborah: 00:06:49

And then one time

Deborah: 00:06:50

he did ask he finally called and Offered me a job, but I was already working and then it was like, I'll offer you three.

Deborah: 00:06:57

Three and I'm like, I'm sorry I can't leave at the job.

Deborah: 00:06:59

I'm on you know,

Deborah: 00:07:01

but it was

Jaclyn: 00:07:01

had your chance.

Deborah: 00:07:03

was it was funny It just never ended up actually working for the person, but we did become Associates that way.

Jaclyn: 00:07:09

That's fantastic.

Jaclyn: 00:07:11

Okay, so I have a question, actually.

Jaclyn: 00:07:14

I really value what you've been saying, like for helping makeup artists to understand, you know, how to develop themselves and how to develop their career, but can we speak to some other people that you're involved with?

Jaclyn: 00:07:25

Like for people that interact with makeup artists, what are some things that would be valuable for them to know?

Jaclyn: 00:07:31

Whether they're actors or crew or directors or, you know, so on.

Jaclyn: 00:07:35

Um, what are some things that, if they understood this, this would really help things.

Deborah: 00:07:41

I think part of it is to know that makeup really is just to enhance the story, to help tell the story.

Deborah: 00:07:49

It's not anything besides that.

Deborah: 00:07:51

So it's, it's just like the wardrobe.

Deborah: 00:07:53

It's just like the hair.

Deborah: 00:07:54

So when working with each other, it's a collaborative effort.

Deborah: 00:07:59

Now, not every make up artist is the same.

Deborah: 00:08:01

Sometimes an actor or a hairstylist will bring their ideas in and they won't be received well but I personally think that it should be a collaborative effort and that they should bring their ideas, bring their pictures, you know.

Deborah: 00:08:16

If I'm working with an actress, tell me what you think your favorite lip color is, what you like to use on your face.

Deborah: 00:08:24

And my job is, when it doesn't look good, to tell you,

Deborah: 00:08:28

you know?

Deborah: 00:08:29

But most of the time they do a great job.

Deborah: 00:08:32

And I learned so much from the people around me.

Deborah: 00:08:34

So I think that's a big one is just to come from it as a collaborative thing, not as a, um, you're in that department, I'm in this department because it can get really, I mean, you still have to have those boundaries, you know.

Jaclyn: 00:08:47

Yeah, at the end of the day, there's certain people have a certain role.

Jaclyn: 00:08:51

And so they're the ones that have the, um, jurisdiction, you could say.

Jaclyn: 00:08:56

It's their place to make those final calls.

Jaclyn: 00:08:58

Yeah.

Deborah: 00:08:59

and also like, you can't touch somebody else's job.

Deborah: 00:09:02

You know, like if the actress wants to hand you her coat, you have to get her wardrobe person.

Jaclyn: 00:09:07

Right.

Jaclyn: 00:09:08

Yeah Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:09:09

So I guess like what you were saying about working on an independent film, um, that might be a little bit less.

Deborah: 00:09:16

no, no, no, you don't cross departments.

Deborah: 00:09:19

Um, I think even on,

Deborah: 00:09:20

um,

Deborah: 00:09:21

regardless of the budget, people are very, into their craft, you know, most people and so it's just their equipment, their jurisdiction.

Deborah: 00:09:29

They know they're responsible for it.

Deborah: 00:09:32

So regardless of the budget, if I'm a makeup artist, I do not touch hair, I mean, unless they asked me to say, really, can you,?

Deborah: 00:09:39

You're in there already.

Deborah: 00:09:40

But that's very rare, very rare.

Deborah: 00:09:42

If the props is there, I don't, touch their stuff, you know, um, cause they have to know where, where it's been,

Jaclyn: 00:09:49

Yeah, they have to account for everything.

Deborah: 00:09:50

Yeah.

Deborah: 00:09:51

And one thing about with COVID, when we went back to work after that, and it was actually the Southern Gospel movie.

Deborah: 00:09:56

And it was really difficult because, you know, everybody was so strict about everything, but in a sense, some of that made sense, like not to touch each other's stuff, you know, that sort of thing.

Jaclyn: 00:10:07

So what I'm hearing is, you know, things that people can know definitely is to, feel free to bring ideas, but at the same time, test to see if this is somebody who is happy to hear your ideas, because not everybody wants them, okay.

Jaclyn: 00:10:22

Um, to recognize that it's a collaborative effort, but at the same time, everybody has their own roles, and no crossing those boundaries.

Deborah: 00:10:31

right.

Jaclyn: 00:10:32

What about, preparation?

Jaclyn: 00:10:34

Say, for example, actors, is it best for them to come to set with a clean face or like if they already have makeup on, just leave it on?

Jaclyn: 00:10:43

Or what is the best thing if you have an actor arrive and you're like, yes, you're ready, like, what does that look like?

Deborah: 00:10:48

Um, usually the night before, the A.

Deborah: 00:10:52

D.

Deborah: 00:10:53

will send out, an email to them or a text...

Deborah: 00:10:55

I'm not sure how they do it these days, with any makeup notes.

Deborah: 00:10:59

So if a male needs to be clean shaven, it'll say that in the notes, "Please come clean shaven".

Deborah: 00:11:05

Now if you're an actor or a stunt man, You can choose,

Deborah: 00:11:10

No, I'm going to have them do it.

Deborah: 00:11:12

You can do that, you know?

Deborah: 00:11:14

Um, and you're right to do that, but it does help with time and stuff like that.

Deborah: 00:11:19

Now, if it's a period piece, then the makeup artist, will have to usually do at least the lead actor, you know, in the stunts if you're doing background makeup, though, you always come as a notes, say.

Deborah: 00:11:30

If everyone's supposed to be clean shaven, and then some people show up with beards on, you don't have the time for it, you know, and so then you send them away to do it themselves, and they come back with, you know, nicks.

Jaclyn: 00:11:41

Yeah.

Deborah: 00:11:41

There's really no facility to do it properly.

Deborah: 00:11:44

so pay attention to the notes.

Deborah: 00:11:45

It's very important.

Deborah: 00:11:47

Um, with, So we'll separate them.

Deborah: 00:11:49

So actor stunts, if it says to come, you come with a clean face.

Deborah: 00:11:55

You've removed any makeup from the night before.

Deborah: 00:11:58

So you come with a clean face, but you don't put anything on it.

Deborah: 00:12:01

Um, if you have your own moisturizer, you could put on a light moisturizer, but you don't put oil on your face, you know, because now makeup arts won't be able to get makeup to stick to it.

Deborah: 00:12:12

so there's that difference between, um, the actors, the stunts, and then you get to the background actors and sometimes the guest stars, but they come as the notes say.

Deborah: 00:12:22

So say if it's a, period movie, The period movie will usually tell them to put on a foundation and maybe mascara, but then they come and there's background makeup artists to put on the specialty colors, you know, because you didn't have glitter in those days.

Deborah: 00:12:37

Tell them how to do their nails, you know, you cannot wear acrylic nails, that sort of thing.

Deborah: 00:12:42

So the most important thing is to read your notes that you receive from the AD, as far as how to come for makeup.

Jaclyn: 00:12:48

Okay.

Jaclyn: 00:12:48

Good to know.

Jaclyn: 00:12:49

Yeah, Good to know.

Deborah: 00:12:51

Okay, I know you've mentioned a few of the projects that you've worked on, um, you know, Hunger Games, Marvel and, and so on, um, Planet of the Apes and, but, you've actually won an award.

Deborah: 00:13:03

Can you tell me about that?

Deborah: 00:13:05

Um, I won an Emmy award for the film behind the candelabra.

Deborah: 00:13:11

And, that was, it was a little bit lower budget than a regular film, but Everyone but me knew it was going to win in all the categories.

Deborah: 00:13:20

So you had like, just the top of each craft and they're the top costumer, the top sound person, the top...

Deborah: 00:13:26

you know.

Deborah: 00:13:26

So it was just a really enjoyable show where everyone's doing their very best job, down to every detail, you know, like, a really wonderful pleasure to work on craft wise.

Deborah: 00:13:38

That's fantastic.

Deborah: 00:13:39

Well, congratulations for that.

Deborah: 00:13:41

And you also, you mentioned that most of your career you've worked on secular film sets, um, but you've expressed an interest and a desire to work, more with, you know, on faith based sets and projects.

Deborah: 00:13:54

And so I would like to ask you to share Your contact information or however you would like people to contact you for people that are looking for a makeup artist for their project.

Deborah: 00:14:05

Yes, okay, if you are looking for a makeup artist for your project, you can reach me at Deborah at DeborahRutherford.

Deborah: 00:14:16

com you know, you can go to my IMDB and see, the different projects I've worked on.

Deborah: 00:14:22

Um, I think that the strength of my resume is that I've done, um, independents as well as big budget film and finding that ground to bring the experience back and forth.

Deborah: 00:14:35

But for me personally, I want to work on stories that, touch and transform hearts, you know?

Deborah: 00:14:42

I love a really good movie that has hope and redemption in it.

Deborah: 00:14:46

And there's so many that don't these days.

Deborah: 00:14:49

And I find often, watching old films and things, because I want to see that if someone's, evil that something bad happens to them or somebody's good that something good happens to them, you know, I want to see hope, redemption, and so it's just kind of really important for me to start seeing that and you know, I've seen um in one of the areas and a lot of films, the beards or the mustaches don't look right...

Deborah: 00:15:17

like if you watch the old biblical movies that most of them are made like in Italy, you know, like, amazing, you know, or in England, amazing craftsmen, with those beards,

Jaclyn: 00:15:26

Mm hmm.

Deborah: 00:15:26

Wigs and everything.

Deborah: 00:15:28

And so I do think that's definitely one area, um, that we could get stronger in is, is that, because has to do with telling the story.

Deborah: 00:15:36

So for example, you're the actress in my, film and Geoff, you're the actor and say we're in a time period.

Deborah: 00:15:43

So say you both are pirates, right?

Deborah: 00:15:45

but Geoff's, um, wig looks like, you know, a store bought wig and his mustache is, not the right style.

Deborah: 00:15:53

And then say your, lipstick color is modern.

Deborah: 00:15:57

What happens is it takes the person out of the story.

Deborah: 00:16:00

So no matter how good your story is, no matter how good your acting is, they're wondering about your mustache.

Deborah: 00:16:06

They're wondering about your lip color, you know?

Deborah: 00:16:09

And so I think that's just one area we definitely do better in and it doesn't have to cost a lot of money.

Deborah: 00:16:16

It just has to be done well.

Jaclyn: 00:16:18

Mm hmm.

Jaclyn: 00:16:19

I appreciate that you said that because that actually, that fits in so many different aspects of filmmaking like, what you want to make sure that you don't do is get in your own way.

Jaclyn: 00:16:30

You want to make sure that you are creating something that allows the audience to stay in the moment stay in the journey.

Jaclyn: 00:16:38

And if you, you know, like you say, whether it's makeup, or it could be, wardrobe, or even dialogue.

Jaclyn: 00:16:45

I have heard so many times where somebody says something, I'm like, that does not fit that generation.

Jaclyn: 00:16:52

And so, yeah, it's that kind of thing where when it's done well, people are in the story.

Jaclyn: 00:16:57

They're not thinking about that particular job, or what was lacking.

Jaclyn: 00:17:02

And so I appreciate that you said that.

Jaclyn: 00:17:05

And it's, it is so true.

Jaclyn: 00:17:06

And I guess some people might overlook certain details, but I think that all of the details are important, you know, whether it be, makeup, or dialogue, or anything else that comes up, lighting, sound, like all of it...

Jaclyn: 00:17:20

if every person is bringing their best and recognizing what the job is requiring of them, then we can create something that's incredible.

Jaclyn: 00:17:29

So I really, uh, I appreciate talking with you today and I appreciate you sharing your story and all the insight that you've shared.

Jaclyn: 00:17:36

I really hope that listeners can glean from it.

Jaclyn: 00:17:39

I know I learned some stuff.

Jaclyn: 00:17:41

You probably can tell like, where I'm green with some of my questions

Jaclyn: 00:17:45

because I know.

Jaclyn: 00:17:46

It's my Oh, thank you.

Jaclyn: 00:17:49

But this is, this is fantastic.

Jaclyn: 00:17:50

I really enjoy learning from my own show because I get to ask questions that I might not get to ask otherwise.

Jaclyn: 00:17:57

So, so thank you for your patience with me.

Deborah: 00:18:01

Oh, no.

Deborah: 00:18:01

no..

Deborah: 00:18:01

It was wonderful.

Deborah: 00:18:02

Yeah.

Deborah: 00:18:03

You brought out questions that brought out answers in me that I haven't really thought of, you know, while.

Deborah: 00:18:09

Yeah, so it's, good,

Jaclyn: 00:18:10

Oh, fantastic.

Geoff: 00:18:11

We'll also make sure we get your contact information, and, your website address in our show notes, because we'll certainly have directors and producers listening to the podcast who need makeup artists, and, uh, you've certainly got the experience to fill the role.

Deborah: 00:18:27

Thank you.

Jaclyn: 00:18:27

Yeah, it feels good also.

Jaclyn: 00:18:29

Not just feels good, but to be part of a project that you know the intent of the project is to bring glory to God.

Jaclyn: 00:18:35

How would you not want to be on that set right?

Deborah: 00:18:38

Absolutely.

Deborah: 00:18:39

Absolutely.

Deborah: 00:18:40

Yeah.

Deborah: 00:18:40

Yeah.

Deborah: 00:18:41

Cause on that Southern gospel, like, like said, you know, the crew, some people were Christians, some people weren't, but in one of the scenes, we have baptism and, the director is actually a pastor himself and, you know, showed people how to baptize.

Deborah: 00:18:56

so you just had people probably never, ever seen somebody baptized.

Deborah: 00:19:00

And it was a

Deborah: 00:19:01

gorgeous day out on a lake and it was you just feel the Lord there.

Deborah: 00:19:05

It was really special.

Deborah: 00:19:07

Yeah,

Jaclyn: 00:19:07

Beautiful.

Geoff: 00:19:08

Where was it filmed?

Deborah: 00:19:09

It was filmed in Georgia.

Deborah: 00:19:10

Yeah, in Atlanta.

Deborah: 00:19:11

I mean, out around the area.

Deborah: 00:19:13

It's actually out in an area called Covington, which is a little more farmland- y.

Geoff: 00:19:18

Uh huh.

Geoff: 00:19:19

Southern Gospel, and we can find it, on the streaming platforms?

Deborah: 00:19:22

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 00:19:22

Great.

Jaclyn: 00:19:23

Well, thank you so much for this interview.

Jaclyn: 00:19:25

And I'm glad I got to spend some time getting to know

Geoff: 00:19:28

Nice to meet you.

Geoff: 00:19:29

Debra.

Deborah: 00:19:29

Thank you.

Deborah: 00:19:29

so much.